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I've missed this place. I learn more on this forum than all the BS flying around apologetic worlds. So grateful for water dog's account of this. Elder Oaks clearly revealed that the actual text was written by someone other than the Apostles. Note what Oaks first explains: The inspiration identifying...

Seeking help. Seems to me that the LDS view of Atonement is heavily influenced by Ransom and Penal Substitution models of atonement -- that God requires either payment for or an exact punishment for all sins committed. While Brad Wilcox' Continuous Atonement seeks to find a more loving, applicable m...

Let me offer the following qualification before I begin. I have no problem with people accepting the existence of the plates, the existence of ancient Hebrew civilizations in America, etc., as matters of faith. Things like plates and civilizations are empirical things, not typically matters of fait...

Maksutov wrote:Is a testimony of the Church a testimony of the Gospel?

Do people worship the Church? Do people fear the Church?

Can LDS Mormons--and their corporate leaders--accept that they are part of a greater cultural movement of Mormonism that they don't own and can't control?

nope, yup, yup, nope.

I read sym's comments and I think he has the best handle on this of anyone posting on the topic. agreed. I never said the local leadership was blameless. Did anyone say that? I guess technically those words were not used. But Rosebud did say they were the " most innocent." And to me that ...

I can't find many critical authors that think dehlin is a korihor, and explain that position well. Maybe, maybe, maybe some active believing Mormons think he is Korihor. But I have not read that here. Midgley probably thinks that, but he doesn't post here. I think you are projecting your agenda wit...

Thanks for that, Wayfarer. Though your opinion seems to differ from Rose Bud's, it still appears to me that he's playing the entire church like a fiddle--a feat that I've never heard of any member successfully pulling off before now. It depends upon what constitutes "success" in this dram...

Rosebud, I'm not sure we can measure "intent" -- You're imputing certain motives, some almost sinister, on John's part, and give a bit of a pass to DCP and John's enemies. You speak of John's selective use of some of his material to paint a positive, "martyr-like" image of himsel...

DrW wrote:

DarkHelmet wrote:On a related note, the church has an organization of serial disbelief predators who stalk neighborhoods two by two to spread disbelief among the faithful protestants, catholics, baptists, jews, etc.

DarkHelmet for the downthread win.

where is the like button

This is not surprising. I'm sure the OMIDs will post and supply the stake court with plenty of dirt if it means getting rid of Dehlin. John Dehlin has made them look the fool for years now. I have no doubt they feel vindicated and are just oozing with glee with this latest development. what is it a...