Search found 178 matches

by JohnW
Sat Apr 29, 2023 1:46 am
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

Hi John. I have a question about this part of your post on pride: It may be that people who strongly feel like the church can't help them aren't all that open to the idea that the church can, in fact, help them. Help them in what way? If, for whatever reason, a member comes to the conclusion that t...
by JohnW
Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:40 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

As I've talked to people leaving the church over the years, there are lots of reasons people leave the church, but I've found two that are almost completely consistent. One of those is a poor understanding of what faith actually is. How it applies in their life, and what it looks like to have faith...
by JohnW
Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:17 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

I appreciate that. I understand that some people have a great draw to what they consider spiritual experiences. I guess my question centers on two things. How do you know those experiences are divine? If not do you care if they are? How do I know? Frankly I can't really know for sure. Spiritual exp...
by JohnW
Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:28 am
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

It seems like you have not looked into the details of various methods that he could have used. This is exactly what Brian Hales uses as an apologetic. Even worse, you are simply using an argument from ignorance.....I can't see how he could do it so I will continue. At least you are brave enough to ...
by JohnW
Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:13 am
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

I just don't think it is as important that we have a perfect idea of God before we start building our relationship with him. Most things in life are like this. There is always some learning along the way. Unless you’re a child who God decides to give childhood cancer to and you die at age 9 after y...
by JohnW
Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:02 am
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

I don't think faith as risk assessment is a convincing framework for what religious people generally mean when they say to have faith. I definitely don't believe the actuarial definition of faith is compatible with what's in scripture. A long time ago I decided the best exegesis of faith is found i...
by JohnW
Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:46 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

Most people aren't using the Book of Mormon as a historical text. They are using it to draw closer to God. So yes, if they read a passage and feel a little closer to God, they might trust the missionaries and get baptized in an effort to start a journey toward God. JohnW, assuming there is a god, w...
by JohnW
Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:36 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

Most people aren't using the Book of Mormon as a historical text. They are using it to draw closer to God. So yes, if they read a passage and feel a little closer to God, they might trust the missionaries and get baptized in an effort to start a journey toward God. That is similar to the bus analog...
by JohnW
Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:13 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

JohnW, I primarily wanted to thank you for being an example of congenial dialogue. It certainly helps my internal compass of curmudgeonality (not a real word, but I'm going to claim it). I want to pre-empt the following that it is not only coming off-the-cuff from memory, but it is from a memory th...
by JohnW
Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:41 pm
Forum: Terrestrial Forum
Topic: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option
Replies: 151
Views: 7092

Re: Everyone Has Faith; That is the Only Option

That isn't how I defined trust originally. I said trust was confidence in someone else's experience. I'm not talking about confidence in the brakes in my car but confidence in the brakes of the bus when I first step on the bus. I'm assuming the driver or maintenance person did their job. This is di...