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Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:32 pm

I would like to offer a counter to your statements. According to available data it does seem the US is facing disproportionate levels of mental health issues compared to similar countries. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... -countries

I think tackling the issues like affordable health insurance will do wonders in terms of reducing gun violence and mass violence in the USA.

That was interesting, but it doesn't account for the difference in the number of mass killings in this country. Canada apparently self-reported higher levels of emotional distress than the US. Why don't they have as many mass shootings?

Some Schmo wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:32 pm

I would like to offer a counter to your statements. According to available data it does seem the US is facing disproportionate levels of mental health issues compared to similar countries. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... -countries

I think tackling the issues like affordable health insurance will do wonders in terms of reducing gun violence and mass violence in the USA.

That was interesting, but it doesn't account for the difference in the number of mass killings in this country. Canada apparently self-reported higher levels of emotional distress than the US. Why don't they have as many mass shootings?

Personally, I think the average Canadian has better access to mental health services than the average American. The US system is absolutely mangled.

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:57 pm

Personally, I think the average Canadian has better access to mental health services than the average American. The US system is absolutely mangled.

No argument here on that point.

The point I was making, however, is that the differences among the countries are a few percentage points, and do not account for the massive difference in the number of mass shootings. Access to mental health care can't possibly be the only difference, especially when you consider that these high emotional distress numbers were all reported in the same year (is health care access really helping?) If access to mental health care were the only difference, shouldn't the US's emotional distress numbers be significantly higher like the numbers for mass shootings?

Some Schmo wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:11 pm

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:57 pm

Personally, I think the average Canadian has better access to mental health services than the average American. The US system is absolutely mangled.

No argument here on that point.

The point I was making, however, is that the differences among the countries are a few percentage points, and do not account for the massive difference in the number of mass shootings. Access to mental health care can't possibly be the only difference, especially when you consider that these high emotional distress numbers were all reported in the same year (is health care access really helping?) If access to mental health care were the only difference, shouldn't the US's emotional distress numbers be significantly higher like the numbers for mass shootings?

Well yes, Canada and the USA are vastly different in the societal issues they face. Mental health is just one slice of the pie that goes into the struggles the average person faces. I fear there isn't good data or understanding into why or what causes a person to turn to mass violence. It happens, the person gets throw in prison and we move on. The USA is morbidly unique in that. I know you would push to the gun ownership in the USA as the answer, but I guess I just don't find that satisfying. I don't think there is a one single scapegoat in this situation, as it is an amalgamation of a vast variety of things that have been festering in our society for decades. I agree that toxic gun culture is one of those things that needs to go. I agree that common sense gun control needs to be implemented. Those types of things would definitely see a reduction in mass violence in the USA, but I don't think that guns themselves are the cause.

Some Schmo wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:26 pm

But let's just pretend for a second that the US suffers from more mental health problems than other counties. What's the solution when millions of people don't have access to health insurance? Are people who have to snuggle up to their guns each night going to support universal healthcare to tackle this "mental health issue?"

Agreed. I see significant overlap between the group of folks most enthusiastic about flexing their Second Amendment rights, and the group of folks who believe that any effort to address mental health issues on a nationwide scale would constitute ‘socialism’, and possibly require an armed response.

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:42 pm

I agree that toxic gun culture is one of those things that needs to go.

There’s the sticky wicket.

‘Gun culture’ is well-baked into our psyche, history, and - for many - their identity.

How do we tackle the toxic aspects of that culture?

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:09 pm

Even if you ban semi-autos and let them be grandfathered in like the automatic weapons ban you still have all of those weapons in circulation most likely forever.

This is likely true, and biggest problem we would have even if we wanted to ban only some guns.

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:32 am

Jersey Girl wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:27 am

Tell me what you think is at the root of that issue?

In a more recent context, the pandemic has obviously exacerbated a lot of underlying issues.

On a bigger scale though, I think poverty, lack of social mobility, increased political tension, substance abuse are a few that come to the top of my head.

If you roll back the tape into childhood, do you see any additional issues in play?

Example from this case:... Jennifer Crumbley did not reply, but the same day sent a text to her son stating: "LOL. I'm not mad, but you have to learn not to get caught."

Does that look like a mother who knows how to give a damn about her own child's well being?

Aren't you the pscyh/peds poster? How about attachment disorders?

canpakes wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:25 pm

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:42 pm

I agree that toxic gun culture is one of those things that needs to go.

There’s the sticky wicket.

‘Gun culture’ is well-baked into our psyche, history, and - for many - their identity.

How do we tackle the toxic aspects of that culture?

I think for your typical gun nuts there isn't much that can be done. They have chosen that path and trying to remove them from that would be impossible. This may be a controversial take but I think a lot of the toxic aspects of gun culture are a reaction to the Democratic Party's seemingly aggressive posturing and rhetoric surrounding gun control. When you have mainstream candidates and politicians like Beto O'Rourke saying things like, “Hell yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47,” I definitely think it breeds a feeling to resist and entrench further in more Second Amendment sympathizing people. People who maybe were on the fence about common sense gun control are all of the sudden placed on the defensive, now feeling the need to resist perceived Democratic Party 'gun roundup'. I am not saying better optics and messaging is going to clear up all issues, but I do think it is an important step to bridging the gap between the parties in the context of gun control laws and also eliminating the fear based toxic gun culture.

I also think education when it comes to gun ownership is key. I am a big supporter of the European method where requirement to be registered with a gun club is in place. I think cultivating use when it comes to guns can be a big area where toxic gun culture can be eliminated. Most toxic gun culture practitioners often own guns, "just for the hell of it" and collect without end. Requiring or encouraging actual use of the gun will in my opinion will no longer render the gun a thing "just to own and trigger the libs." So it may sound weird, but actually creating more opportunities for people to use their guns in healthy and positive ways I think will eliminate a lot of this boredom we see with gun ownership in the USA.

Kukulkan wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:11 pm

People will find ways to kill themselves in the absence of guns.

Yes, but that is not what statistics show

"Many studies have found that state gun laws that regulate the purchase and possession of firearms can lead to a reduction in suicide rates"
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... sltb.12713

The evidence is overwhelming.

Other studies
"Permissiveness of firearm laws, pro-gun culture, and suicides by firearm in the U.S., 2000–2016"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5221001439

"Does regulation matter? A cross‐national analysis of the impact of gun policies on homicide and suicide rates"
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... rego.12235

"Guns and suicide: A fatal link"
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"Guns and Suicide: Are They Related?"
https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/depres ... d-suicide/