Libertarian Utopias

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Kishkumen
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Kishkumen »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:09 am
Anyone who disagrees with the progressive narrative that has infected this board is considered a troll. The most recent example is Markk. He post one time and the next post is from Kevin, one of Doc Cams lieutenants, posting how Markk is a troll. That’s your problem. You have a handful of posters on here that don’t want an opposing view point here and they know they have free reign of the board to go out and do exactly what Kevin did without actually being disciplined. That’s exactly what this board has turned into. You guys have taken advantage of Dr. shades generosity and essentially taken over his board with your progressive disease. There’s so many of you now there’s really nothing he can do. The boards infested with progressive cockroaches and every time an exterminator comes around you guys change the rules.
Wow! Thank you for showing us who you really are. In all my time on this board I don't think I have read an uglier post. This is the kind of language that seeded the Holocaust and Rwandan genocide. You are a dangerous person.
“Academia’s continual campaign to disregard or neglect the classics is a sign of spiritual decay, moral decline and a deep intellectual narrowness running amok in American culture.” ~ Cornel West
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:43 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:09 am
Anyone who disagrees with the progressive narrative that has infected this board is considered a troll. The most recent example is Markk. He post one time and the next post is from Kevin, one of Doc Cams lieutenants, posting how Markk is a troll. That’s your problem. You have a handful of posters on here that don’t want an opposing view point here and they know they have free reign of the board to go out and do exactly what Kevin did without actually being disciplined. That’s exactly what this board has turned into. You guys have taken advantage of Dr. shades generosity and essentially taken over his board with your progressive disease. There’s so many of you now there’s really nothing he can do. The boards infested with progressive cockroaches and every time an exterminator comes around you guys change the rules.
Wow! Thank you for showing us who you really are. In all my time on this board I don't think I have read an uglier post. This is the kind of language that seeded the Holocaust and Rwandan genocide. You are a dangerous person.
The growing use of eliminationist rhetoric on the right is worthy of a thread all its own.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by honorentheos »

Gadianton wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:06 am
While I appreciate the sentiment, I think the rule of law should prevail. I'm happy to see these three fine individuals take the reigns.

Shades' rules are pretty brilliant, I'll admit that. They are kind of like a mini constitution. But one person can't write it and enforce it and everything in between, and Res, Xen, and Canpakes will do an awesome job. Probably they will error on the side of sympathy to trolls, but I think ultimately they will find a solution. I think that a free-speech forum should be slow to ban people and should give people chances.

I was heartened by Res' red ink on the latest youtube link and drive-by.
Amen.

Ironically, I'm sympathetic to a core point in AM's comments here. At least part of the outrage aimed his direction is hypocritical. But his response to it was poor. Unfortunately, too much of American politics is shallow while the emotional attachment to it is intense. We aren't cooking with a full pantry when it comes to attempting to have a public dialog on such matters. Most posts are going to be bowls of cold cereal, and there will be posters who only engage when someone puts water on their Honey Nut Cheerios, not to talk about the cereal but only to decry the blasphemy that is putting water on cold cereal...or something. Probably a dumb analogy. Guess I'm hungry for breakfast.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

He’s his own worst enemy on that score. During the period he’s obsessed with, there was effectively no moderation on the site. And there were legitimate issues about how people responded to that. But Mike’s antics pulled the attention to him rather than actual problems to be addressed. That’s what happens when someone resorts to self help to try and force changes on an existing online community. But the worst mistake Mike made was to ignore the fact that others changed their behavior when moderation was restored but he did not. To me, that indicates insincerity about his stated reasons for being here. And I suspect his labeling of people here as cockroaches that he wants to exterminate is closer to the actual reason he is here and behaves the way he does.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:41 pm
When I first found this board I read the rules and here are the first words I read, “”1. Everyone is welcome. Every opinion is welcome. Therefore, do not de-invite anyone or suggest they go elsewhere. Please do not do this via email or private message either.”” And after that, I started reading through threads and I suddenly realized whoever set up those rules is as an extremely nice person with a good heart and that person had been taken advantage of by a bunch of whiny loud mouth progressives that set up a clique on the board. I also noticed the clique was using a handful of their devoted members to moderate the board by Intimidation and by insulting posters with a differing view point? The clique devised a plan to send out certain members to insult other poster by calling them a racist, nazi, sexist, misogynist, trumpeter, White supremacist and so on. And I’ll admit the clique strategy was very affective. Within posting just a handful of times I had two board members PM me and warn me of the progressives narrative found in Spirit paradise. They flat out told me I was going to be attacked if I post my actual views. One of the members actually new of me from MDDB and said I wasn’t going to last a week in Spirit paradise. My wife is amazed at how absolutely insane and vicious the attitude is in spirit paradise, she thinks it’s a cesspool. My buddy from mddb won’t use his account because he doesn’t do well with confrontation.

Your clique has taken advantage of Shades and it happened way before I came along. Universal rule #1 means absolutely nothing, not because of Shades, but because of his so called friends that formed a clique and now tell him if he doesn’t comply with their demands they’ll leave him. That’s not friendship.

But go ahead and change the rules, i’m a chameleon and I can change my colors overnight. You’re going to have to get rid of me by deleting my account. Like Gadianton said, no one actually wants me here because I’m Mormon. Like the backwards Professor said, this place is an ECHO CHAMBER and you guys should be proud of that fact. Because everyone knows the reason you don’t want me here is because of my opinion. You’re upset because I won’t accept being called names like Ajax accepts it. That’s not who I am and it drives you guys crazy. So much so, you’ve performed a psychological coup d’état on one of your own friends. Shades has bent over backwards to give you guys exactly what you want, exactly. And now you have his power. So let’s see what you do with it.

Let's sharpen this up a bit. It looks like you have a few main arguments:
‘AtlanticMike’s Acceptable Rules of Conduct’ wrote:1. The board allows many points of view, but many of them are from so-called progressives. Therefore the board has been 'taken over', and that's bad. The solution is to flood the board with so-called conservative video links and insults, and drown out any legitimate discussions, because that's good.

2. Several posters have occasionally insulted others when they disagree, and that's bad. Therefore, one or two participants claiming to be 'conservative' should insult nearly every poster, every day, with thousands more insult posts than anyone and everyone else combined, because that's good.

3. The rules were somewhat liberal about all of this, and that's bad. Therefore, the libertarian approach crafted by those rules should be taken advantage of to disrupt the board as much as possible, because that's good.

4. It's everyone else's fault that Atlanticmike cannot control his own behavior. Everyone else that Atlanticmike disagrees with is a cockroach, and makes Atlanticmike do bad things, so those other folks are all bad, but Atlanticmike acting badly is good.

I think that this captures things pretty well. What do you say?

Also, can you explain why Shades is wrong about the Jeremy Bentham principle? You seem to want to take issue with that.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:09 am
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:16 am


I don’t think you’ll find an example of me ever trying to strong arm Shades. On a couple of occasions, when he seemed at a very low place, I volunteered to take on some extra responsibility to take some of the pressure on him if it would help. When I have a disagreement with Shades about the board, I handle it by PM or on the mod board. That’s my style.

Andy you’re making the same mistake over and over. I am responsible for the content of my posts. I am not responsible for the content of your posts. You are responsible for the content of your posts. I am not responsible for the content of posts by people who publicly criticized Shades. Each of those posters is responsible for the content of their own posts.

As a moderator, I am responsible for enforcing the rules. There is no rule against criticizing Shades for actions he takes or does not take in administering the board. As you may have noticed, the same is true of moderators. Part of the job is being willing to take the heat.

The mistake you keep making over and over again is a common one among Mormons and, therefore, ex Mormons. They often try to make themselves responsible for the behavior of others, while blaming their own behavior on someone else. Both you and Binger do this all the time.

When you accuse me of letting others strong arm Shades, you are completely scrambling up who is responsible for whose speech. As a forum member, I have neither the power nor the responsibility to be responsible for others speech. As a moderator, no rule would allow me to prevent people from criticizing Shades.

And on that subject, it is the height of hypocrisy for you to be criticizing others behavior towards Shades. Despite being aware of his real life pressures and setbacks, you never once let up with your campaign to troll and Piss off folks here. I think it would be fair to say that you took complete advantage of Shades’ circumstances to be as divisive as possible. You’ve displayed complete contempt for Shades’ rules, even bragging that no matter how they may be changed, you’ll be right there finding some loophole to continue to troll. When it comes to showing respect for Shades, you have absolutely no high ground. A person who respected Shades would have made good faith efforts to stay within the spirit and the letter of the rules without playing the “please don’t eat the daisies” game.
Anyone who disagrees with the progressive narrative that has infected this board is considered a troll. The most recent example is Markk. He post one time and the next post is from Kevin, one of Doc Cams lieutenants, posting how Markk is a troll. That’s your problem. You have a handful of posters on here that don’t want an opposing view point here and they know they have free reign of the board to go out and do exactly what Kevin did without actually being disciplined. That’s exactly what this board has turned into. You guys have taken advantage of Dr. shades generosity and essentially taken over his board with your progressive disease. There’s so many of you now there’s really nothing he can do. The boards infested with progressive cockroaches and every time an exterminator comes around you guys change the rules.
Kevin does not speak for me. I don't think Markk is "a troll." I've gone hammer and tongs in arguments with Markk. He argues strenuously and forcefully. Like most folks here, he trolls occasionally. I think his "go fund me" thread could appropriately be described as trolling. But that's far different from being "a troll." During the times I've been a moderator, I don't recall having to spend any time on Markk's posts. That's because he posts to communicate -- not to disrupt other's communication.

As for Kevin being "disciplined," use the report button like you've been asked to do multiple times.

As for Kevin being Cam's "Lieutenant," if I thought for a second that you actually believed this, I'd plead with you to get mental health treatment for your delusions.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Marcus »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:08 pm
I think his "go fund me" thread could appropriately be described as trolling.
which has since ended (or at least, the gofundme withdrawn).
But that's far different from being "a troll."
Exactly.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:41 pm
canpakes wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:48 pm



We’ve seen a few. One of the better examples is the fellow always whining about ‘progressive cockroaches’. ; )

When I first found this board I read the rules and here are the first words I read, “”1. Everyone is welcome. Every opinion is welcome. Therefore, do not de-invite anyone or suggest they go elsewhere. Please do not do this via email or private message either.”” And after that, I started reading through threads and I suddenly realized whoever set up those rules is as an extremely nice person with a good heart and that person had been taken advantage of by a bunch of whiny loud mouth progressives that set up a clique on the board. I also noticed the clique was using a handful of their devoted members to moderate the board by Intimidation and by insulting posters with a differing view point? The clique devised a plan to send out certain members to insult other poster by calling them a racist, nazi, sexist, misogynist, trumpeter, White supremacist and so on. And I’ll admit the clique strategy was very affective. Within posting just a handful of times I had two board members PM me and warn me of the progressives narrative found in Spirit paradise. They flat out told me I was going to be attacked if I post my actual views. One of the members actually new of me from MDDB and said I wasn’t going to last a week in Spirit paradise. My wife is amazed at how absolutely insane and vicious the attitude is in spirit paradise, she thinks it’s a cesspool. My buddy from mddb won’t use his account because he doesn’t do well with confrontation.

Your clique has taken advantage of Shades and it happened way before I came along. Universal rule #1 means absolutely nothing, not because of Shades, but because of his so called friends that formed a clique and now tell him if he doesn’t comply with their demands they’ll leave him. That’s not friendship.

But go ahead and change the rules, i’m a chameleon and I can change my colors overnight. You’re going to have to get rid of me by deleting my account. Like Gadianton said, no one actually wants me here because I’m Mormon. Like the backwards Professor said, this place is an ECHO CHAMBER and you guys should be proud of that fact. Because everyone knows the reason you don’t want me here is because of my opinion. You’re upset because I won’t accept being called names like Ajax accepts it. That’s not who I am and it drives you guys crazy. So much so, you’ve performed a psychological coup d’état on one of your own friends. Shades has bent over backwards to give you guys exactly what you want, exactly. And now you have his power. So let’s see what you do with it.
Cool story, bro. I doubt anyone here believes that you believe what you posted here. While I would agree that there is a dominant clique here, your description of a plan would be a paranoid delusion if you believed it. As it is, it's just belligerent trolling of the type you've been engaged in since you got here.

You chose to declare war on a group of people that hadn't done anything to you. And you did it by trying to drive wedge between Shades and the people that have posted on his board for decades. And, although you don't realize it, against the very people that stepped up and rescued this board when it was dead as a doornail. For all the attempted sucking up to Shades you've done, you've tried your hardest to sabotage what he's tried to create here. You have shown him complete disrespect through your actions. You've made your intent crystal clear here: you've labeled a large group of people here "cockroaches" and your goal is to "exterminate" them. Under the most generous of interpretations, that means you deliberately abuse the liberty that Shades offers everyone here in order to deprive the "cockroaches" of their ability to use Shades's site to communicate. You are the classic example of projection -- while you accuse everyone else of suppressing your point of view, it's you who wants to completely suppress the "disease" of progressivism. You are no supporter of free speech -- you're the enemy of free speech. And that's crystal clear from your own words.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Atlanticmike »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:24 pm
Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:41 pm



When I first found this board I read the rules and here are the first words I read, “”1. Everyone is welcome. Every opinion is welcome. Therefore, do not de-invite anyone or suggest they go elsewhere. Please do not do this via email or private message either.”” And after that, I started reading through threads and I suddenly realized whoever set up those rules is as an extremely nice person with a good heart and that person had been taken advantage of by a bunch of whiny loud mouth progressives that set up a clique on the board. I also noticed the clique was using a handful of their devoted members to moderate the board by Intimidation and by insulting posters with a differing view point? The clique devised a plan to send out certain members to insult other poster by calling them a racist, nazi, sexist, misogynist, trumpeter, White supremacist and so on. And I’ll admit the clique strategy was very affective. Within posting just a handful of times I had two board members PM me and warn me of the progressives narrative found in Spirit paradise. They flat out told me I was going to be attacked if I post my actual views. One of the members actually new of me from MDDB and said I wasn’t going to last a week in Spirit paradise. My wife is amazed at how absolutely insane and vicious the attitude is in spirit paradise, she thinks it’s a cesspool. My buddy from mddb won’t use his account because he doesn’t do well with confrontation.

Your clique has taken advantage of Shades and it happened way before I came along. Universal rule #1 means absolutely nothing, not because of Shades, but because of his so called friends that formed a clique and now tell him if he doesn’t comply with their demands they’ll leave him. That’s not friendship.

But go ahead and change the rules, i’m a chameleon and I can change my colors overnight. You’re going to have to get rid of me by deleting my account. Like Gadianton said, no one actually wants me here because I’m Mormon. Like the backwards Professor said, this place is an ECHO CHAMBER and you guys should be proud of that fact. Because everyone knows the reason you don’t want me here is because of my opinion. You’re upset because I won’t accept being called names like Ajax accepts it. That’s not who I am and it drives you guys crazy. So much so, you’ve performed a psychological coup d’état on one of your own friends. Shades has bent over backwards to give you guys exactly what you want, exactly. And now you have his power. So let’s see what you do with it.
Cool story, bro. I doubt anyone here believes that you believe what you posted here. While I would agree that there is a dominant clique here, your description of a plan would be a paranoid delusion if you believed it. As it is, it's just belligerent trolling of the type you've been engaged in since you got here.

You chose to declare war on a group of people that hadn't done anything to you. And you did it by trying to drive wedge between Shades and the people that have posted on his board for decades. And, although you don't realize it, against the very people that stepped up and rescued this board when it was dead as a doornail. For all the attempted sucking up to Shades you've done, you've tried your hardest to sabotage what he's tried to create here. You have shown him complete disrespect through your actions. You've made your intent crystal clear here: you've labeled a large group of people here "cockroaches" and your goal is to "exterminate" them. Under the most generous of interpretations, that means you deliberately abuse the liberty that Shades offers everyone here in order to deprive the "cockroaches" of their ability to use Shades's site to communicate. You are the classic example of projection -- while you accuse everyone else of suppressing your point of view, it's you who wants to completely suppress the "disease" of progressivism. You are no supporter of free speech -- you're the enemy of free speech. And that's crystal clear from your own words.
Good try Perry Mason, but just because you learned how to lie in law school doesn’t mean you’re good at it. Like I said, the Backwards Professor confirmed what I’ve been saying for 8 months now, this is an ECHO CHAMBER. I think you confirmed that too didn't you? You guys built a progressive ECHO CHAMBER despite Universal rule #1. And you can’t have an ECHO CHAMBER and universal rule #1 without conflict, ain’t gonna happen. What do you think is gonna happen when new posters read the rules, think wow, everyone is welcome, then come to find out there’s a big ECHO CHAMBER smack dab in the middle of the board? That’s correct, conflict like we’re having now. Shades has givin the members of your ECHO CHAMBER everything you guys have asked him for, and nothing has satisfied your Progressive appetite. Nothing at all, not even given up his power. You’re to blinded by your cognitive bias to realize you guys caused this problem way before I came along. And now you’ve grown accustomed to being the bullies on the block and you’re upset because the new kid isn’t running away when you send the goon squad out. You want me to turn around and run away but instead I’m in your face and and I’m laughing at you. It’s driving you crazy.
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Re: Libertarian Utopias

Post by Res Ipsa »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:15 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 6:24 pm


Cool story, bro. I doubt anyone here believes that you believe what you posted here. While I would agree that there is a dominant clique here, your description of a plan would be a paranoid delusion if you believed it. As it is, it's just belligerent trolling of the type you've been engaged in since you got here.

You chose to declare war on a group of people that hadn't done anything to you. And you did it by trying to drive wedge between Shades and the people that have posted on his board for decades. And, although you don't realize it, against the very people that stepped up and rescued this board when it was dead as a doornail. For all the attempted sucking up to Shades you've done, you've tried your hardest to sabotage what he's tried to create here. You have shown him complete disrespect through your actions. You've made your intent crystal clear here: you've labeled a large group of people here "cockroaches" and your goal is to "exterminate" them. Under the most generous of interpretations, that means you deliberately abuse the liberty that Shades offers everyone here in order to deprive the "cockroaches" of their ability to use Shades's site to communicate. You are the classic example of projection -- while you accuse everyone else of suppressing your point of view, it's you who wants to completely suppress the "disease" of progressivism. You are no supporter of free speech -- you're the enemy of free speech. And that's crystal clear from your own words.
Good try Perry Mason, but just because you learned how to lie in law school doesn’t mean you’re good at it. Like I said, the Backwards Professor confirmed what I’ve been saying for 8 months now, this is an ECHO CHAMBER. I think you confirmed that too didn't you? You guys built a progressive ECHO CHAMBER despite Universal rule #1. And you can’t have an ECHO CHAMBER and universal rule #1 without conflict, ain’t gonna happen. What do you think is gonna happen when new posters read the rules, think wow, everyone is welcome, then come to find out there’s a big ECHO CHAMBER smack dab in the middle of the board? That’s correct, conflict like we’re having now. Shades has givin the members of your ECHO CHAMBER everything you guys have asked him for, and nothing has satisfied your Progressive appetite. Nothing at all, not even given up his power. You’re to blinded by your cognitive bias to realize you guys caused this problem way before I came along. And now you’ve grown accustomed to being the bullies on the block and you’re upset because the new kid isn’t running away when you send the goon squad out. You want me to turn around and run away but instead I’m in your face and and I’m laughing at you. It’s driving you crazy.
The Backyard Professor doesn't speak for me or the board. And I certainly do not agree that this site is an "ECHO CHAMBER." You've repeatedly, and hilariously, labeled people as part of your delusional "progressive cabal" that aren't even progressive. You've put me in the same "clique" with people I don't get along with at all. This is a BS narrative you keep parroting over and over as your excuse to try and drive people you disagree with out of this forum by trolling the crap out of it. You keep waiving UR 1 around, when it's you who has admitted that you see "progressives" as "cockroaches" to be "exterminated." You don't support UR 1 at all -- not when you label people you have a political disagreement with as "cockroaches" to be "exterminated."

As I keep saying and you keep ignoring, you came here during a lapse in moderation. Since moderation has resumed, everyone but you and Binger has modified their behavior. You keep using someone else's months ago behavior as an excuse to continue your own bad behavior. That's one of several tells that exposes your act here as 100% phoney. If you were really concerned about treatment of others, you'd have noticed that everyone else adjusted their behavior and adjusted yours to conform to the rules. But you didn't. In fact, you escalated from your own political trolling threads, to other threads in Paradise, to Terrestial.

I know that you can start substantive, non-trolling threads. I thought your hallway thread in Terrestial was excellent and presented a point of view not often expressed here. And you got a pretty positive reaction by people who posted in that thread. But, for some reason, that wasn't entertaining enough for you, so you went right back to straight trolling.

You've alienated enough people on the board (including some conservatives) that I'm pretty sure I don't speak for the board on this, but I don't want you to turn around and run away. Or walk away. Or even back away. All I want you to do is stop trying to pretend your the new Sheriff in town with some kind of mandate to impose your vision of what the board should be on everyone else. I want you to stop trying to exterminate the cockroaches. I want you to make a good faith effort to stay within the rules instead of your constant attempts to find and exploit loopholes and rules lawyer over technicalities. Just like everybody has been doing most of the time since the mod team was appointed. I want to see more posts from you like your hallways post. I'll bet you've got dozens of interesting stories like it. But you're too damn insecure to drop the act. I believe that you proudly announced in a post that we'd never see the "real" Atlanticmike. That's a loss for us. But it's a real loss for you. Because you act like a number of posters that I've bumped into over the years that haven't really come to terms with Mormonism. This is actually a pretty good place to work that kind of thing out, if you'll drop the B.S. and just be yourself.

That's what I want, and I think I've been pretty consistent with you about that since Shades appointed me as a mod. Nobody here speaks for me but me.
he/him
"Everything we see hides another thing, we always want to see what is hidden by what we see."
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