Oh what a tangled web we weave

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honorentheos
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by honorentheos »

Sincerely, you don't understand the laptop issue at all. You are not responding to the facts but rather a straw man version of it that assumes what is currently being reported validates what Trump was claiming. It doesn't.

https://www.vox.com/22992772/hunter-biden-laptop

Try this.
Markk
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Markk »

The link you just gave says what? Like the links I gave you most are opinion pieces. My point is using them is to show the FBI had the laptop almost a year before the election (which you did not even know). Res didn’t understand this either.

So my assertion is one, the lap top is indeed very real and NOT Russian disinformation. And two, as the thread evolved…the FBI had the Lap Top all along and let the narrative flow freely that the laptop was a hoax, Russian disinformation, and did not correct that false narrative. The FBI had almost a year to declare, what is now verified 2 year later.

How Rudy, the Post, Trump and others handled this and how they tried to use the information in the election is irrelevant to my point. Again, the link you just gave me is just a opinion piece, and if you follow the authors name, he like most folks that wrote about it are walking their stories back.

I’m not sure what you mean by “i don’t understand the Lap top issue,” what I do know it was real, and they had it long before Rudy, and if Max kept his mouth shut, and did not give copies to Rudy, the truth about this might have never surfaced. It does not matter what side of the issue one is on, this effected the election, enough to make a difference…who knows?

Now if you want to explain to me why my point is not important or that it is false…please do, and we can go through that.

Thanks
honorentheos
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by honorentheos »

Markk wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:35 pm
The link you just gave says what? Like the links I gave you most are opinion pieces. My point is using them is to show the FBI had the laptop almost a year before the election (which you did not even know). Res didn’t understand this either.

So my assertion is one, the lap top is indeed very real and NOT Russian disinformation. And two, as the thread evolved…the FBI had the Lap Top all along and let the narrative flow freely that the laptop was a hoax, Russian disinformation, and did not correct that false narrative. The FBI had almost a year to declare, what is now verified 2 year later.

How Rudy, the Post, Trump and others handled this and how they tried to use the information in the election is irrelevant to my point. Again, the link you just gave me is just a opinion piece, and if you follow the authors name, he like most folks that wrote about it are walking their stories back.

I’m not sure what you mean by “i don’t understand the Lap top issue,” what I do know it was real, and they had it long before Rudy, and if Max kept his mouth shut, and did not give copies to Rudy, the truth about this might have never surfaced. It does not matter what side of the issue one is on, this effected the election, enough to make a difference…who knows?

Now if you want to explain to me why my point is not important or that it is false…please do, and we can go through that.

Thanks
Of course they are opinion pieces. The facts are minimal which is what makes it fertile ground for conspiracy.

The laptop being real wasn't the issue in 2020. It was that the information claimed to have been received from it couldn't be authenticated and those withholding evidence had obvious political motives to see it fester in the news cycle as an October surprise.

And the FBI by policy doesn't publicly discuss evidence or investigations. You are taking that and blowing it into a conspiracy fireball.
Markk
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Markk »

It was a huge issue, it is what Trump was saying it was real, and it was real. Yet the narrative pushed it was false and or Russian disinformation. Also there was a clear hit piece by the 50 ex-intelligence and national security officials, and so called experts, that signed the document stating that in their opinion the laptop was disinformation and appears to be a Russian operation to help Trump win the election because he was down in the polls. And the FBI let that alone?

One of he FBI’s greatest responsibilities is to make sure elections are fair and honest, so your assertion that it is their policy to keep quit is a misnomer. It is their responsibility to make sure that elections are fair. They had almost a year to know that the lap top was Biden’s and they didn’t say a thing.

Also how many of these so called experts voted for Trump? I read almost all are democrats and my guess is…if they are republicans or independents they are never Trumpers. If this wasn’t a hit piece then this does not say much about the wisdom of our national security experts, in fact it is scary.

Honor, if the information could not be authenticated….then why was it more or less authenticated Russian disinformation. Think. What you are inadvertently stating is that it was wrong for Trumps folks to say the information and laptop were Bidens, but it was perfectly okay to say it was Russian Disinformation even though you assert nothing was authenticated. Also to think that the FBI 10 or 11 moths later did not have very good idea it was indeed Hunters laptop.

This hole thing really stinks.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Res Ipsa »

Markk wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:59 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:59 pm


I’m surprised nobody has mentioned it. If you’re used to splitting things like mediation costs among multiple parties, It jumps right off the page. 83,333.33 is one third of $250,000. Now, perhaps Burisma originally budgeted $250k per month for outside directors and the other third was paid to the Polish director. If not, I’d be keeping a lookout for the other third. I don’t think the Treasury Agents missed this, and it will be interesting to see if there was a three-way split of $250K and, if so, who got the other third.
LOL, maybe I didn’t see it that way. In my conversation with pakes a few years ago I stated that the 83.33 x 12 = 1 million dollars a year…but I like your observation also…

If my observation is true, I could see MZ saying “ I’ll pay you a million a year to come on board…but yours makes more sense if their is a silent partner.
I think either is possible. I hadn't done the math on the annual payment.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Res Ipsa »

honorentheos wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:46 pm
Any timeline of the issue really ought to integrate the Trump family's involvement with the Bayrock Group, as well as the dealings of Paul Manafort. To understand the misdirection, one should follow both hands. As with any trick, the hand presented by the magician to watch closely is providing cover for the other hand working nearby.
Well, what I'm envisioning could be integrated in to a timeline to examine that, but I'd like to keep this project centered on the issues of whether Joe Biden used his governmental powers improperly for the purpose of enriching Hunter.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Res Ipsa »

Markk wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:32 am
honorentheos wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:21 am

But it's not about Joe Biden except in your imagination. The depths and details are all supposition and conjecture. The dealings of Trump and his children with Russian money, the Russian Mafia, and the worst kinds of unsavory characters you imagine are smoking cigars and conspiring with Joe Biden are proven and known to be associated with Trump. And we have four years of Trump destroying democracy while enriching himself and his businesses while President.

I would that Donald Jr. was half the man Beau Biden was, or any of the Trump children. But you know, Hunter smokes crack while Donald's kids prefer their cocaine more white collar in it's form. I'm sure the concern you express is genuine...
Okay Honor, my thread that I authored is not about the Biden’s. Honor in my hiatus a lot must have happened in your life for you to be so bitter, as I recall you use to be very objective and somewhat pragmatic and fun to discuss our differences together,…things have obviously changed. I am truly sorry if I offend you.

I am enjoying my conversation with Res, and I don’t know if have the energy to quibble over Trump. So once again, he is not president, he is a a-hole, a narcissist and was a billionaire playboy who was a you know what grabber. I hope he does not run again, and I hope we have two worthy candidates to choose from that can get our country back on the right track.

I am worried about our current administration big time. There is no denying Biden is not calling the shots. Most of us have gone through this with a parent or grand parent…he is not fit. And we know Harris is maybe the most inept VP that might very well be president in our history, at the least that I can relate to. If this was during a past era where we were somewhat stable, maybe we could just sit back and wait three more years, but we know that isn’t the case. If you want to blame it on Trump…fine, it’s all his fault. But the reality Biden is at the helm, what do we do? Your call.
I deny it. Although, in contrast to Trump, he relies on a competent set of advisers to keep him informed and give him advice.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
honorentheos
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by honorentheos »

Markk wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:45 pm
It was a huge issue, it is what Trump was saying it was real, and it was real.
It's a huge issue that Hunter Biden left a laptop with emails and a sex video at a repair shop? Trump claimed it showed Joe Biden was compromised by foreign interests through his son, and it doesn't show that, either. "It was real" is a statement about what, exactly? That there was a laptop, therefore Joe Biden is being bought by China? Again, you are letting your imagination overlap the facts to an incredible degree.
One of he FBI’s greatest responsibilities is to make sure elections are fair and honest, so your assertion that it is their policy to keep quit is a misnomer. It is their responsibility to make sure that elections are fair. They had almost a year to know that the lap top was Biden’s and they didn’t say a thing.

This is ignorance and fantasy.
Also how many of these so called experts voted for Trump? I read almost all are democrats and my guess is…if they are republicans or independents they are never Trumpers. If this wasn’t a hit piece then this does not say much about the wisdom of our national security experts, in fact it is scary.
Also fantasy.
Honor, if the information could not be authenticated….then why was it more or less authenticated Russian disinformation.
It wasn't. The letter signed by intelligence experts didn't say it was authenticated as Russian disinformation. They stated it had multiple indicators that were typical of Russia disinformation campaigns. That matters, Markk.
Think. What you are inadvertently stating is that it was wrong for Trumps folks to say the information and laptop were Bidens, but it was perfectly okay to say it was Russian Disinformation even though you assert nothing was authenticated. Also to think that the FBI 10 or 11 moths later did not have very good idea it was indeed Hunters laptop.
This is not a statement of facts.

At what point do you acknowledge that the issue in 2020 was the inability of the news to authenticate the emails? And that the FBI and the media are separate entiti s with different roles and procedures? Your conspiracy is based on gross misunderstandings and ignorance that would be helpful to replace with informed discussion that isn't just dismissal of the issues in favor of stale claims from 2020 out under the heat lamp of conservative outrage.
This hole thing really stinks.
Yeah, this hole does stink.
honorentheos
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by honorentheos »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:55 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:46 pm
Any timeline of the issue really ought to integrate the Trump family's involvement with the Bayrock Group, as well as the dealings of Paul Manafort. To understand the misdirection, one should follow both hands. As with any trick, the hand presented by the magician to watch closely is providing cover for the other hand working nearby.
Well, what I'm envisioning could be integrated in to a timeline to examine that, but I'd like to keep this project centered on the issues of whether Joe Biden used his governmental powers improperly for the purpose of enriching Hunter.
Of course. I do wonder about the purpose of the project given the same exercise was undertaken specific to the Ukraine and shared in the previous thread when the issue was more fresh but I'm purely a spectator in this effort. Adding the objective to be distracted from might lend novelty to the enterprise given I am unaware of similar timelines existing.

There was some discussion in the old thread about the sincerity of Markk and why myself and others viewed him as being sincere when many did not. My impression then and still is that Markk is among many people who do not allow new information to have subtractive power for their theories, only additive. A product of John Wayne/Dalen Oaks "never apologize" machismo, perhaps. So when new information is presented that should cause the original argument to reframe around a disproven view, they instead reassert the claim and the new information largely dismissed. It's not insincere so much as it is simply not in their capacity to deconstruct their prior beliefs based on new information. If it doesn't synthesize with the theory, it is sincerely if mistakenly seen as non-responsive. One is greeted with renewed appeals to "think about it", and the just so thinking that fed the original belief is reasserted as obvious and unaddressed. It cannot be reduced, only acknowledged and reframed which is not what one ought to do with mistaken beliefs when evidence disproves them but that isn't inherently how we all think. As a result, one cannot show that this just so thinking was wrong and needs to reeled back. Instead, one ends up chasing conjecture after conjecture like the multiplying heads of a hydra.

Do you foresee the timeline being more successful this go around in removing imagination from the primary fuel feeding the claims of Biden corruption? If so, I'm interested in observing what success you achieve. So far I see your successes coming in the form of withheld judgement and the potential for Hunter Biden to prove the scoundrel. I don't know that that is in dispute but it's apparently news worthy. Given your evidence presented about the meetings and other claims that form the basis for attaching Joe Biden to the speculated scandal was less successful in finding purchase, well...

I'm sure it will be fruitful.
Markk
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Re: Oh what a tangled web we weave

Post by Markk »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:57 pm
Markk wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:32 am


Okay Honor, my thread that I authored is not about the Biden’s. Honor in my hiatus a lot must have happened in your life for you to be so bitter, as I recall you use to be very objective and somewhat pragmatic and fun to discuss our differences together,…things have obviously changed. I am truly sorry if I offend you.

I am enjoying my conversation with Res, and I don’t know if have the energy to quibble over Trump. So once again, he is not president, he is a a-hole, a narcissist and was a billionaire playboy who was a you know what grabber. I hope he does not run again, and I hope we have two worthy candidates to choose from that can get our country back on the right track.

I am worried about our current administration big time. There is no denying Biden is not calling the shots. Most of us have gone through this with a parent or grand parent…he is not fit. And we know Harris is maybe the most inept VP that might very well be president in our history, at the least that I can relate to. If this was during a past era where we were somewhat stable, maybe we could just sit back and wait three more years, but we know that isn’t the case. If you want to blame it on Trump…fine, it’s all his fault. But the reality Biden is at the helm, what do we do? Your call.
I deny it. Although, in contrast to Trump, he relies on a competent set of advisers to keep him informed and give him advice.
Who are these advisers? I often wonder who is really in charge. When my mother in law was entering into dementia, she showed the same signs as JB. She had her good days, and her ok days, and some bad days. She would close her eyes to think when pressed like Biden, and get angry like Biden when questioned about certain things. It obvious he is i early stages of this.

My point is when she started to decline, we had to slowly take over duties for her. her accounting, make sure she was taking her meds and that she took care of her dogs, and just basic things like hygiene. So I think with Joe it is a little more complicated than advisers keeping him informed and giving him advice…good God he is, or should be the most powerful man in the world.

Who is really calling the shots…who creates his notes and tells him what to say? Susan Rice? His wife? Hunter? ( a joke to keep this light).
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