Aging, death, and the gospel

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msnobody
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Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by msnobody »

I'm in my late 50's and know that some of you are just behind me. Over the past two to three years, I have aged. It feels like the process has sped up. I’ve become very cognizant that I am drawing closer and closer to my dirt nap. My dad died four years ago, and my mother this past January. I can see a big difference in myself in those four years. I've seen a lot of people die in my lifetime, none of whom thought they would die as soon as they did. People of various ages from cancer, suicide, old age, car accidents and those are just a few of the recent ones. Even at 89 years old, my mother didn’t realize she was so near death. As I’m watching the weather forecast as I type, I am reminded of the patient’s I’ve cared for who experienced injury or death from the tornadoes we’ve had over the years. High school classmates have passed away as well as persons I’ve posted alongside on discussion boards. The ages are all across the board. As I think about someone I know online that passed away, I ask myself, did I make a difference in his life? If I had known he would pass away at age 60, I would have tried to stay in touch. Why didn’t I stay in touch?

With that said, it is important to be prepared for death, for once comes death and then judgement. We’ve all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God requires perfection. There is one who was perfect and was sent as the propitiation for our sins. His righteousness accredited to our account. He came, was crucified, buried and rose from the grave, and went to the Father. He will come again to judge, and gather those whom the Father has given him. Evil will be cast away once for all. Have trouble believing that? Surrender your heart to God. He is faithful.

I’ve heard it said that you can’t bring this message to a place like this, that you must provide intellectual or historical proof, or intellectual discussion. I personally think there is a place for the simple. God has provided general revelation of himself in his creation, for which no one is without excuse. Then, there are messages such as this one which should be spoken. So when I bring this message here as I have done in the past, I bring it out of obedience. Surrender your heart to God. He is faithful to bring understanding.
Someone we posted alongside years ago prayed this Scripture to God and God was faithful, and honored her prayer (I included the 6th verse).

Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
Proverbs 2:3-6

True wisdom comes from God.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind… having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.
Marcus
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by Marcus »

Thank you for your kind concerns about others. Apparently I am even further down that road than you are, and I’ve had a few similar thoughts about aging.

I don’t believe in any gods or supernatural beings, however, so while your sentiment is appreciated, it’s not part of my life experience to feel a need to surrender to a god, or to believe true wisdom comes from a god. I believe true wisdom comes from using one’s brain to the best of one’s ability, and in appreciating the gift of sentience and self-awareness that we have.

It’s an amazing world, full of great wonders, and we have it to experience and enjoy. We have much to share with each other, even if our beliefs are not exactly the same. Thank you again for your post.
msnobody
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by msnobody »

Marcus wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:15 am
Thank you for your kind concerns about others. Apparently I am even further down that road than you are, and I’ve had a few similar thoughts about aging.

I don’t believe in any gods or supernatural beings, however, so while your sentiment is appreciated, it’s not part of my life experience to feel a need to surrender to a god, or to believe true wisdom comes from a god. I believe true wisdom comes from using one’s brain to the best of one’s ability, and in appreciating the gift of sentience and self-awareness that we have.

It’s an amazing world, full of great wonders, and we have it to experience and enjoy. We have much to share with each other, even if our beliefs are not exactly the same. Thank you again for your post.
Thank you for your post as well, Marcus. I’m glad we get to enjoy this amazing world together.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind… having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.
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ajax18
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by ajax18 »

I was very ill and close to dearh as a young man. It was then I realized that living is where the suffering is, not death. My heart is more heavy for people like Shawn Bradley. And yet because of Jesus Christ I believe he'll be compensated in the next world for enduring pain none of us could even imagine completely. I no longer have a death wish because all experience is of eternal value. But I spend zero time contemplating my own mortalty. When my time comes I won't be letting the door hit me in the butt on the way out.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
msnobody
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by msnobody »

ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:53 am
I was very ill and close to dearh as a young man. It was then I realized that living is where the suffering is, not death. My heart is more heavy for people like Shawn Bradley. And yet because of Jesus Christ I believe he'll be compensated in the next world for enduring pain none of us could even imagine completely. I no longer have a death wish because all experience is of eternal value. But I spend zero time contemplating my own mortalty. When my time comes I won't be letting the door hit me in the butt on the way out.
The moment you die, then what?
And he made from one man every nation of mankind… having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.
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ajax18
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by ajax18 »

msnobody wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:35 am
ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:53 am
I was very ill and close to dearh as a young man. It was then I realized that living is where the suffering is, not death. My heart is more heavy for people like Shawn Bradley. And yet because of Jesus Christ I believe he'll be compensated in the next world for enduring pain none of us could even imagine completely. I no longer have a death wish because all experience is of eternal value. But I spend zero time contemplating my own mortalty. When my time comes I won't be letting the door hit me in the butt on the way out.
The moment you die, then what?
I'm not sure I understand your question?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
msnobody
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by msnobody »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:33 pm
msnobody wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:35 am


The moment you die, then what?
I'm not sure I understand your question?
I’m not sure I understand your post either.

I was just curious about your thoughts on what happens after your physical body dies.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind… having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.
Gunnar
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by Gunnar »

I'm not very worried about what will happen to me after death. I doubt that any part of my consciousness or ability to know anything will survive after my body dies, except in the memories of my loved ones that I leave behind. What I do worry about is how my loved ones will fare without me, and whether I will leave enough behind to help them thrive without me until their own demise, and about the grief they will suffer when I am gone.

As for my physical body itself that I possessed at the moment of death, it will never again be of any use to me. The best thing that can happen to my body is for it to decompose as rapidly as possible so the matter of which it was composed can be returned to the environment to become part of other living organisms, including other human beings. Even if there really is a such thing as universal resurrection, it is simply neither possible nor necessary that our resurrected bodies will consist of the very same particles of matter composing our dead and buried bodies. Consider: as long as we are living, our bodies are constantly metabolizing and being torn down and being replaced by new matter. Old cells breaking down or being discarded and replaced by new ones. Even the individual cells, including our nerve cells, as long as they are alive, are constantly replacing and rebuilding parts of themselves as they take in energy and nutrients to sustain themselves. We can pretty much guarantee that very few of the atoms and molecules in our current bodies were also a part of our bodies even as little as a year ago. When people die, the atoms of their bodies are eventually dispersed far and wide.

Every living human being contains atoms that were once part of other human beings, both dead and currently living. In fact, there is virtually a 100% probability that at least a few of the atoms of any random living human now living were once a part of Mozart, or Henry the VIII or any famous long dead person one could name. Why then, should we go to the trouble of preserving one's body by burial in a sealed coffin and consecrating the grave, when it really makes no difference whether one's resurrected body is composed of the very same particles that composed it at the time of death, or the year before death, or 15 years before, or even if they were ever were actually a part of one's living body at all?

Consider also the resurrection of Christ. When his disciples rushed into his tomb and found his body missing, what did that really prove? Given what I explained above, whether his body was there or not had no necessary bearing whatsoever on whether or not he was actually resurrected. His resurrected body need not have consisted of the very same matter as his recently deceased body. Besides that, the fact his body still retained the wounds of his crucifixion casts doubt on the claim that he really died, as we are told by Mormon doctrine that our resurrected bodies will be restored to their full perfection. This implies to me that either Christ was merely revived from an unconscious state to fool his disciples into believing he was resurrected, or the whole story of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection is merely a religious myth.
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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ajax18
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by ajax18 »

msnobody wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:36 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:33 pm


I'm not sure I understand your question?
I’m not sure I understand your post either.

I was just curious about your thoughts on what happens after your physical body dies.
I have a mix of standard lds beliefs and near death experiences. Like Gunnar I don't see the need for resurrection to mean the same atoms be revived. Our spirits are eternal. We'll have a prejudgment and be assigned to a level in the spirit world that we can best tolerate. Hopefully we can stiil learn grow and advance until our final judgment.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
msnobody
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Re: Aging, death, and the gospel

Post by msnobody »

Scripture says first comes death, then judgement.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind… having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us.
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