Did Trump "Drain" the swamp?

[Markk]

Kevin,

you are just finding the faults, which we can do to any action by any president on just about any disaster, like a hurricane, earth quake or pandemic. Trump also did some positive things and good things. What this exercise shows is how polarized you and some others are.

[canpakes]

Kevin,

you are just finding the faults, which we can do to any action by any president on just about any disaster, like a hurricane, earth quake or pandemic. Trump also did some positive things and good things. What this exercise shows is how polarized you and some others are.

Hey, at least you and Kevin agree that Trump did not drain the swamp.

That insurrection thing was really problematic, too.

[K Graham]

Kevin,

you are just finding the faults, which we can do to any action by any president on just about any disaster, like a hurricane, earth quake or pandemic. Trump also did some positive things and good things. What this exercise shows is how polarized you and some others are.

Lame rationalization and whataboutism to excuse Trump from any wrongdoing

[Markk]

Kevin…focus, he did things wrong, and he did things good. All presidents do. Whether you understand it of not they are just men…people like you and I…dumb asses with faults and some good. You put these guys upon a pedestal just like you did Joseph Smith and the brethren…your arguments style here is no different when you and I use to argue the Book of Abraham and other LDS crap. Do you remember your telling me how the Book of Abraham and other LDS doctrines were true 15-20 years ago? Both you and folks like Paul O would call me the same names you do now…becasue I argued that Mormonism was wrong.

Don’t put these folks up on a throne like you did as a Mormon…Trump or Biden or any of these folks don’t give a rip about anyone but their own special interest…but what you can do is take the ideals that fit yours and support that, which I do with Trump, but I can also call BS to his bogus ideals…which you refuse to do with the folks you are married to…like Biden.

[Markk]

Kevin,

you are just finding the faults, which we can do to any action by any president on just about any disaster, like a hurricane, earth quake or pandemic. Trump also did some positive things and good things. What this exercise shows is how polarized you and some others are.

Hey, at least you and Kevin agree that Trump did not drain the swamp.

That insurrection thing was really problematic, too.

LOL…I conceded that…but he did get a huge stinking part of it down the drain, he flushed a Clinton, and wiped it clean with a Bush….but couldn’t get Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell and alike down the drain…maybe in two and a half years?


I still want to do a garden thread…starting to get tomatoes, strawberry’s, and squash…maybe this week end.

[K Graham]

Kevin…focus, he did things wrong, and he did things good. All presidents do.

Classic whataboutism.

Whether you understand it of not they are just men…people like you and I…dumb asses with faults and some good.

Whatever "good" you think Trump did is debatable at best and likely driven by partisan bias which you continuously demonstrate all the while accusing others of doing this. Whatever good he did is far outweighed by the destruction he has created in America. The only thing you can come up with is the vaccine and it has already been shown to you from every angle that Trump had nothing to do with it.

You put these guys upon a pedestal just like you did Joseph Smith and the brethren…your arguments style here is no different when you and I use to argue the Book of Abraham and other LDS crap. Do you remember your telling me how the Book of Abraham and other LDS doctrines were true 15-20 years ago? Both you and folks like Paul O would call me the same names you do now…becasue I argued that Mormonism was wrong.

No I don't remember any of that, it never sounded like me to claim the "Book of Abraham was true" even when I was a firm believer. But all you've done here is point out that between the two of us, I'm the one who has demonstrated a willingness to change perspectives based on evidence. You're still the exact same guy. The same straight across the board "Christian" who is more devout to the Republican party than anything any Church has taught. Why do you keep bringing up Mormonism when I haven't been a Mormon in any sense for roughly twenty years now?

And what's this "throne" business all about? Do you think I'm putting Trump up on a throne?? This thread is to discuss whether or not Trump had in any sense "drained the swamp" as you claimed in a previous thread. You're still unable to provide any evidence that he did this. When it is pointed out to you that Trump was the most incompetent and destructive President in history, or that he made the swamp much worse than it was, you go back to this "all Presidents make mistakes" gambit.

[Markk]

Kevin…focus, he did things wrong, and he did things good. All presidents do.

Classic whataboutism.

Whether you understand it of not they are just men…people like you and I…dumb asses with faults and some good.

Whatever "good" you think Trump did is debatable at best and likely driven by partisan bias which you continuously demonstrate all the while accusing others of doing this. Whatever good he did is far outweighed by the destruction he has created in America. The only thing you can come up with is the vaccine and it has already been shown to you from every angle that Trump had nothing to do with it.

You put these guys upon a pedestal just like you did Joseph Smith and the brethren…your arguments style here is no different when you and I use to argue the Book of Abraham and other LDS crap. Do you remember your telling me how the Book of Abraham and other LDS doctrines were true 15-20 years ago? Both you and folks like Paul O would call me the same names you do now…becasue I argued that Mormonism was wrong.

No I don't remember any of that, it never sounded like me to claim the "Book of Abraham was true" even when I was a firm believer. But all you've done here is point out that between the two of us, I'm the one who has demonstrated a willingness to change perspectives based on evidence. You're still the exact same guy. The same straight across the board "Christian" who is more devout to the Republican party than anything any Church has taught. Why do you keep bringing up Mormonism when I haven't been a Mormon in any sense for roughly twenty years now?

And what's this "throne" business all about? Do you think I'm putting Trump up on a throne?? This thread is to discuss whether or not Trump had in any sense "drained the swamp" as you claimed in a previous thread. You're still unable to provide any evidence that he did this. When it is pointed out to you that Trump was the most incompetent and destructive President in history, or that he made the swamp much worse than it was, you go back to this "all Presidents make mistakes" gambit.

Your throne is the Democratic Party. Biden is by an afar the most incompatant president ever, Harris is a joke…Trump is the most narrasitic asshole president i know of. Big difference.

Is Biden a sharp competent leader? Does he have another 7 years left?

[canpakes]

Hey, at least you and Kevin agree that Trump did not drain the swamp.

That insurrection thing was really problematic, too.

LOL…I conceded that…but he did get a huge stinking part of it down the drain, he flushed a Clinton, and wiped it clean with a Bush….but couldn’t get Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell and alike down the drain…maybe in two and a half years?

No. Existing pols aren’t the only type of swamp critter. Replacing them with lobbyists, cronies or just another dynasty (tell me again how the larger Trump family had no involvement with the Administration) only serves to deepen that same swamp.

I think that you’ve used OpenSecrets.org as a reference before. They’ve got the list: https://www.opensecrets.org/Trump/lobbyists

Then there’s this piece from ProPublica, in 2019:

At the halfway mark of President Donald Trump’s first term, his administration has hired a lobbyist for every 14 political appointments made, welcoming a total of 281 lobbyists on board, a ProPublica and Columbia Journalism Investigations analysis shows.

With a combination of weakened rules and loose enforcement easing the transition to government and back to K Street, Trump’s swamp is anything but drained. The number of lobbyists who have served in government jobs is four times more than the Obama administration had six years into office. And former lobbyists serving Trump are often involved in regulating the industries they worked for.

Even government watchdogs who’ve long monitored the revolving door say that its current scale is a major shift from previous administrations. It’s a “staggering figure,” according to Virginia Canter, ethics chief counsel for the D.C.-based legal nonprofit Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. “It suggests that lobbyists see themselves as more effective in furthering their clients’ special interests from inside the government rather than from outside.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/we-f ... ration/amp

I still want to do a garden thread…starting to get tomatoes, strawberry’s, and squash…maybe this week end.

I think that would be excellent; I look forward to it.

[Markk]

LOL…I conceded that…but he did get a huge stinking part of it down the drain, he flushed a Clinton, and wiped it clean with a Bush….but couldn’t get Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell and alike down the drain…maybe in two and a half years?

No. Existing pols aren’t the only type of swamp critter. Replacing them with lobbyists, cronies or just another dynasty (tell me again how the larger Trump family had no involvement with the Administration) only serves to deepen that same swamp.

I think that you’ve used OpenSecrets.org as a reference before. They’ve got the list: https://www.opensecrets.org/Trump/lobbyists

Then there’s this piece from ProPublica, in 2019:

At the halfway mark of President Donald Trump’s first term, his administration has hired a lobbyist for every 14 political appointments made, welcoming a total of 281 lobbyists on board, a ProPublica and Columbia Journalism Investigations analysis shows.

With a combination of weakened rules and loose enforcement easing the transition to government and back to K Street, Trump’s swamp is anything but drained. The number of lobbyists who have served in government jobs is four times more than the Obama administration had six years into office. And former lobbyists serving Trump are often involved in regulating the industries they worked for.

Even government watchdogs who’ve long monitored the revolving door say that its current scale is a major shift from previous administrations. It’s a “staggering figure,” according to Virginia Canter, ethics chief counsel for the D.C.-based legal nonprofit Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. “It suggests that lobbyists see themselves as more effective in furthering their clients’ special interests from inside the government rather than from outside.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/we-f ... ration/amp

I still want to do a garden thread…starting to get tomatoes, strawberry’s, and squash…maybe this week end.

I think that would be excellent; I look forward to it.

Fair enough…so Clinton is gone, bush is gone….Romney is almost gone…so if Trump is kept out and the Biden/Obama’s are kept out we are moving in the right direction? If we get Shummer, MacConnell, Pelosi, Graham, and down the line then we are heading in the right direction…would you agree?

The problem is that we are so polarized that I am not sure anyone that is decent would put themselves and their family through the mess.

[canpakes]

... Romney is almost gone…

I was never sure what so many right-wing-aligned folks found so objectionable about Romney aside from the fact that he stood up against Trump at the right times. The folks angry at him about that just seem to be supporting a different ‘swamp’, and for arguably much worse reasons - blind loyalty. Blind loyalty is literally the thing that feeds and perpetuates that swamp.

Anyhow, you’ve still got Ronna Romney McDaniel running the current version of the Trumpian GOP, right on down to covering his legal bills.