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The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related. No insults or personal attacks allowed. Rated G.
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by canpakes »

Elizabeth wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:13 am
My opinion is that Adolf Hitler and his followers have been misrepresented and falsely accused.

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It may indeed be true that Hitler did not wear swastika underwear. We’ll never know.

If you had something else in mind, then you’re likely misrepresenting Hitler.
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by Elizabeth »

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 9:06 pm
We should keep in mind that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has members, Chapels and Temples world wide... including Germany, Ukraine, and Russia.
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Gadianton
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

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It's true that the LDS Church flourished in Nazi Germany. As an authoritarian regime today, however, the LDS church is as corrupt as they come, which has its advantages. An LDS Church with idealistic leaders is unfortunately very compatible with movements like Nazism. But you're not wrong to find parallels between the two.

by the way, Liz, identifying with Hitler doesn't give you some great power. On the web it gives you a few shock value points, "everyone be afraid of Liz because she likes Hitler! we're so scared!" Its kind of like being into Marylin Manson or one of those death metal bands A-Mike goes on about, right?

When I was a teenager I started getting into church books, my dad had a respectable gospel library along with options most Mormon libraries don't have. Ecclesiastical histories and commentaries, some of them long out of print, for instance. He also happened to have a copy of Mein Kampf tucked away there. It was a pretty new looking book and I asked him about it once, but I'm not sure I remember the story behind it. I want to say it was part of a college class he'd taken. Anyway, I was curious enough so I read a couple pages in the middle but it was pretty boring and so I moved on.
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

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‘Hitler allegedly, via Liz’ wrote:I see no reason why this war must go on.

Well, then. He shouldn’t have started a war, and he could have chosen to end it once he did. So he blew it twice.

Maybe he was ‘provoked’. We have a gentleman in another subforum who uses that (and everything can be a provocation, even breathing) as an excuse to do most anything.
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by Res Ipsa »

Hitler said lots of things.
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by Elizabeth »

It was Britain, not Germany, who declared World War Two.
Germany wanted only the return of stolen German lands.

I have ancestry from both Britain and Germany, as do many.
canpakes wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 12:16 am
‘Hitler allegedly, via Liz’ wrote:I see no reason why this war must go on.
Well, then. He shouldn’t have started a war, and he could have chosen to end it once he did. So he blew it twice.
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

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Elizabeth wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:51 pm
It was Britain, not Germany, who declared World War Two.
Germany wanted only the return of stolen German lands.

I have ancestry from both Britain and Germany, as do many.
canpakes wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 12:16 am


Well, then. He shouldn’t have started a war, and he could have chosen to end it once he did. So he blew it twice.

Reread what I wrote. To ‘start’ and to ‘declare’ are two different things.

MArch 1939
Hitler invades Czechoslovakia

March/April 1939
Britain rearms Poland

August 1939
Russia and Germany sign pact

1 September 1939
Hitler invades Poland

3 September 1939
Britain and France declare war on Germany

Poland wasn’t stolen from Germany, either.
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by Res Ipsa »

Elizabeth wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:51 pm
It was Britain, not Germany, who declared World War Two.
Germany wanted only the return of German lands stolen in World War One.
canpakes wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 12:16 am


Well, then. He shouldn’t have started a war, and he could have chosen to end it once he did. So he blew it twice.
The history of eastern Europe is filled with territorial and national states coming and going, merging and splitting, mostly as a consequence of war religion and dynastic marriages. Over time, Poles developed national core values of language culture and religion. Poland existed as a nation state as early as the 10th Century. It became dynastically linked with Lithuania through marriage in the 1300s. The two became the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the 1500s. External wars and internal conflict weakened the commonwealth over time, while its neighbors, Austria, Prussia, and Russia grew in power. In the late 1700s, the three combined to destroy the Commonwealth, each taking (or, in your words, "stealing") a part of its territory.

In 1807, when Napoleon defeated Prussia, he established a semi-independent Duchy of Warsaw. It had its own army and fought in alliance with France, militarily enlarging its territory.

After Napoleon's defeat in 1814, the Duchy of Warsaw was replaced with a new Kingdom of Poland, which was joined with Russia under a personal union under the Russian Tsar, with its own constitution and military. However, it was still part of the Russian partition of the former Poland-Lithuanian commonwealth, and Prussia and Austria maintained control over their partitioned portions as well.

In 1830, Poles staged an uprising against the partitioning nations, that became a war against Russia. The independence movement was defeated, but uprising of Poles continued to occur. Despite the efforts of the three nations that had dismembered Poland, Poles retained a strong sense of national identity and did not significantly assimilate into the three countries that had partitioned it.

With the outbreak of WWI, Poles saw an opportunity to press for re-establishment of Poland as a nation. As had been occurring in Europe for literally thousands of years, the three monarchies that lost the war lost territory. The winners agreed to reestablish a Polish nation state, although its borders were subject to continuing border wars for a number of years during the period between the world wars. Poland attempted to military conquer portions of the former Commonwealth on its eastern border, including Lithuania and Ukraine. It fought a war against Russia until 1921, resulting in the partitioning of Lithuania and Ukraine.

To claim that Hitler's military invasion of Poland was somehow justified because Poland was "stolen" from Germany is a disingenuous apologetic that ignores thousands of years of history, including the fact that Prussia, Austria, and Russia "stole" Poland from the Poles in the first place. Poles were a distinct ethnicity defined by language, religion and custom, and had a nation state for thousands of years before it was stolen from them.

France had Germany had military alliances with Poland. Hitler chose to military invade Poland anyway, which, substantively was the start of WWII. That's the way military alliances worked. Hitler apologetics is a threadbare attempt to deflect from the horrors of his treatment of Jews and other groups.
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canpakes
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Re: Moved: THISandThat

Post by canpakes »

Elizabeth wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:13 am
My opinion is that Adolf Hitler and his followers have been misrepresented and falsely accused.
All countries have had prisoners of war, but the Japanese were the evil ones who tortured their prisoners, not the Germans.

How many more posts until we get to the Holocaust denials?
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