State of the Pandemic

[Res Ipsa]

It didn’t help that the CDC said early on that masks didn’t work, a “noble lie” to protect mask inventory.


If you want Americans to act responsibly, you should probably treat them like adults. The government has undermined a lot of their own credibility, and you can’t blame the American public for those mistakes.

The CDC never said that. Dumb lies like this one is the reason we're basically a third world country when it comes to national emergencies. Don't blame government because idiots like Tucker Carlson lie to millions of dumb Americans who are dying to be fed B.S. about how the government is screwing everything up.

I can’t recall who said that originally, but I followed both the WHO and CDC closely at the time. At the time, there was very little evidence that wearing masks would reduce transmission. It was well publicized that health care professionals lacked adequate quantities surgical masks and respirators, and there were legitimate concerns over the extent to which non fit tested respirators would protect members of the public and the risk that people would rely on masks at the expense of other mitigation measures.

Public making really became an issue when the CDC reacted to hospitals running out of respirators and surgical masks by advising health care providers to, as a last resort, use a bandana or other cloth barrier to provide at least some protection against droplet transmission. As there was no cloth or bandanna shortage, members of the public began making and using cloth masks. At the time, there was only one study that addressed cloth masks. It was during the Vietnam war in a hospital setting. And it observed that the cloth masks became a source of transmission as bacteria or virus particles collected on the surface of the fabric. So, there as a valid concern that the benefit of a cloth barrier could be outweighed by surface transmission from the mask to the hands.

I was paying close attention to all this because I’d signed up to be a census enumerator in early 2020, and I was trying to figure out the best strategy for going door to door to hundreds of stranger’s homes without becoming infected or bringing the disease home.

Based on my own review of the very sparse literature on making by the public, I initially avoided using cloth masks. But as researchers began to seriously investigate the issue, I was convinced that wearing a cloth mask would provide a net reduction in my chances of becoming infected, especially if I handled it carefully and practiced good hand hygiene.

All this is to say that the notion that the CDC flat out lied about masks dramatically oversimplifies what was actually going on. There was very little scientific evidence addressing use of masks by the general public and legitimate concerns that general masking could actually increase the overall risk of exposure. As actual research progressed, advice changed.

[drumdude]

The CDC never said that. Dumb lies like this one is the reason we're basically a third world country when it comes to national emergencies. Don't blame government because idiots like Tucker Carlson lie to millions of dumb Americans who are dying to be fed B.S. about how the government is screwing everything up.

I can’t recall who said that originally, but I followed both the WHO and CDC closely at the time. At the time, there was very little evidence that wearing masks would reduce transmission. It was well publicized that health care professionals lacked adequate quantities surgical masks and respirators, and there were legitimate concerns over the extent to which non fit tested respirators would protect members of the public and the risk that people would rely on masks at the expense of other mitigation measures.

Public making really became an issue when the CDC reacted to hospitals running out of respirators and surgical masks by advising health care providers to, as a last resort, use a bandana or other cloth barrier to provide at least some protection against droplet transmission. As there was no cloth or bandanna shortage, members of the public began making and using cloth masks. At the time, there was only one study that addressed cloth masks. It was during the Vietnam war in a hospital setting. And it observed that the cloth masks became a source of transmission as bacteria or virus particles collected on the surface of the fabric. So, there as a valid concern that the benefit of a cloth barrier could be outweighed by surface transmission from the mask to the hands.

I was paying close attention to all this because I’d signed up to be a census enumerator in early 2020, and I was trying to figure out the best strategy for going door to door to hundreds of stranger’s homes without becoming infected or bringing the disease home.

Based on my own review of the very sparse literature on making by the public, I initially avoided using cloth masks. But as researchers began to seriously investigate the issue, I was convinced that wearing a cloth mask would provide a net reduction in my chances of becoming infected, especially if I handled it carefully and practiced good hand hygiene.

All this is to say that the notion that the CDC flat out lied about masks dramatically oversimplifies what was actually going on. There was very little scientific evidence addressing use of masks by the general public and legitimate concerns that general masking could actually increase the overall risk of exposure. As actual research progressed, advice changed.

It would have been helpful if *any* of that nuance had been communicated to the American public in March of 2020.

Instead we had simplistic tweets from our top health leaders that were deleted once they became embarrassing in hindsight.

[Vēritās]

It would have been helpful if *any* of that nuance had been communicated to the American public in March of 2020.

Instead we had simplistic tweets from our top health leaders that were deleted once they became embarrassing in hindsight.

I'm curious what it is you think they could have told us? Very little was known about the virus in March 2020.

Dr. Nancy Messonnier: "If you are sick or a patient under investigation and not hospitalized, CDC recommends wearing a face mask when around other people and before entering a health care provider’s office, but when you are alone, in your home, you do not need to wear a mask." (February 12, 2020)

At the moment, the CDC website says the only people who need to wear a face mask are those who are sick or are caring for someone who is sick and unable to wear a mask. But in an interview with NPR on Monday, CDC Director Robert Redfield said that the agency is taking another look at the data around mask use by the general public. "I can tell you that the data and this issue of whether it's going to contribute [to prevention] is being aggressively reviewed as we speak," Redfield told NPR. (March 31, 2020)

So what's the big lie here?

It isn't like recommending masks for everyone was going to change the fact that idiot Trump supporters were going to refuse, and then go around coughing on people just to stick to the libs.

[drumdude]

It’s not a left or a right issue, the majority of Americans when polled say they don’t trust the CDC. That is a massive failure of a critical institution. Americans need to trust their government, especially during times of crisis. As long as Fauci and others keep seeing this as a “Trumper” problem, instead of a larger bipartisan problem, Americans will continue to distrust their government. And we will be in much worse shape for the next big national crisis.

[Res Ipsa]

It’s not a left or a right issue, the majority of Americans when polled say they don’t trust the CDC. That is a massive failure of a critical institution. Americans need to trust their government, especially during times of crisis. As long as Fauci and others keep seeing this as a “Trumper” problem, instead of a larger bipartisan problem, Americans will continue to distrust their government. And we will be in much worse shape for the next big national crisis.

Fomenting distrust in federal government institutions has been the explicit agenda of one of our two major political parties for at least 40 years. We’ve had a media empire dedicated to it for decades. It doesn’t matter what an institution like the CDC does — political and media leaders will make up alternate facts to attack its credibility.

The “Trumpers” brutally and viciously savaged Fauci for not parroting dear leader. They do it with any person or institution that doesn’t type the party line. They don’t respect education or expertise — all that counts is the part line. When a significant portion of the country devoted itself to undermining trust, the result is no trust in anyone or any institution.

[Vēritās]

It’s not a left or a right issue, the majority of Americans when polled say they don’t trust the CDC. That is a massive failure of a critical institution. Americans need to trust their government, especially during times of crisis. As long as Fauci and others keep seeing this as a “Trumper” problem, instead of a larger bipartisan problem, Americans will continue to distrust their government. And we will be in much worse shape for the next big national crisis.

What res said. But still waiting for you to explain what they could have told you back in March 2020 that would have made you happier.

[drumdude]

It’s not a left or a right issue, the majority of Americans when polled say they don’t trust the CDC. That is a massive failure of a critical institution. Americans need to trust their government, especially during times of crisis. As long as Fauci and others keep seeing this as a “Trumper” problem, instead of a larger bipartisan problem, Americans will continue to distrust their government. And we will be in much worse shape for the next big national crisis.

Fomenting distrust in federal government institutions has been the explicit agenda of one of our two major political parties for at least 40 years. We’ve had a media empire dedicated to it for decades. It doesn’t matter what an institution like the CDC does — political and media leaders will make up alternate facts to attack its credibility.

The “Trumpers” brutally and viciously savaged Fauci for not parroting dear leader. They do it with any person or institution that doesn’t type the party line. They don’t respect education or expertise — all that counts is the part line. When a significant portion of the country devoted itself to undermining trust, the result is no trust in anyone or any institution.

I think it's much more complicated than that. We seemingly can't even agree that the tweet the Surgeon General made and then later deleted was problematic. As far as I know that tweet wasn't the consequence of a grand decade long Republican scheme to undermine the confidence in the CDC. It was a self inflicted wound to their credibility.

Acknowledging mistakes is a hallmark of good leadership. That certainly wasn't going to come from Trump. But I'm not seeing it from the other side either. And that's a problem.

[drumdude]

This article in the Tribune states it much more eloquently than I can.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/05/13/ ... n-biggest/

[Res Ipsa]

Fomenting distrust in federal government institutions has been the explicit agenda of one of our two major political parties for at least 40 years. We’ve had a media empire dedicated to it for decades. It doesn’t matter what an institution like the CDC does — political and media leaders will make up alternate facts to attack its credibility.

The “Trumpers” brutally and viciously savaged Fauci for not parroting dear leader. They do it with any person or institution that doesn’t type the party line. They don’t respect education or expertise — all that counts is the part line. When a significant portion of the country devoted itself to undermining trust, the result is no trust in anyone or any institution.

I think it's much more complicated than that. We seemingly can't even agree that the tweet the Surgeon General made and then later deleted was problematic. As far as I know that tweet wasn't the consequence of a grand decade long Republican scheme to undermine the confidence in the CDC. It was a self inflicted wound to their credibility.

Acknowledging mistakes is a hallmark of good leadership. That certainly wasn't going to come from Trump. But I'm not seeing it from the other side either. And that's a problem.

What does the Surgeon General have to do with the CDC?

[drumdude]

I think it's much more complicated than that. We seemingly can't even agree that the tweet the Surgeon General made and then later deleted was problematic. As far as I know that tweet wasn't the consequence of a grand decade long Republican scheme to undermine the confidence in the CDC. It was a self inflicted wound to their credibility.

Acknowledging mistakes is a hallmark of good leadership. That certainly wasn't going to come from Trump. But I'm not seeing it from the other side either. And that's a problem.

What does the Surgeon General have to do with the CDC?

Under the direction of the United States Department of Health and Human Services are:

The Surgeon General. The leading spokesperson on matters of public health in the federal government of the United States. The surgeon general also has many informal duties, such as educating the American public about health issues and advocating healthy lifestyle choices.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The national public health agency of the United States.

The Surgeon General, despite popular misconceptions, is not just the guy who tells you not to smoke cigarettes. For example in July 1994, the Office of the Surgeon General authorized the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to serve as lead agency for preparing the first Surgeon General's report on physical activity and health.

https://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/intro.htm

The more you know...