State of the Pandemic

[Hawkeye]

One thing I'll say for Res Ipsa is that at least he's consistent with his views on the global scamdemic response. More intellectually dishonest political "scientists" like Veritas actually tried to blame Trump and Republicans for the shutdown and stimulus dole.

[canpakes]

The existing science is disagreeing with you.

Wrong.

Stomping your feet and repeating your claim won’t do the trick. I’ll await your references honoring the science behind the question. Whenever you’re ready.

In the meantime, you can read the link that I left behind; feel free to argue against the conclusions within it.

The straw man appears to be your own, as you and I both know that I’m not referring to ‘filtration’ as the single option of installing a mechanical filter and calling it a day.
; )

You and I also both know that no system, designed to act on the air within a hospital (there you go; that should cover all of the aspects of what we are talking about) is going to be 100% effective against transmission in, say, a hospital waiting room … or in just about any other area of a hospital accessible to and used by one or more people at a given time. By your own criteria, all such systems must not be defined by any measure other than, ‘do not work’.

What is a "mechanical filter'? What the hell? Are you building radios or something?

Oh boy. Is your straw man made of plastic straws, papers straws or straw?

Keep going, panny. I am laughing so damn hard. This is better than a Chappelle or Gervais special. Thanks buddy. You are good for this.

Here’s where you retreat back to a straw man from a previous post so that you can avoid addressing the reality that no system you can point to is 100% effective against transmission between individuals within a hospital waiting room. Or any hospital hall, or common area.

As you say, they ‘do not work’.

You’ve set the criteria, and we are in agreement on this. ; )

[Vēritās]

I watched the WHO practically beg countries not to resort to lockdowns and to concentrate instead on cutting off the chains of transmission through testing, tracing, isolating and quarantining.

Do you remember EAllusion telling me that I had blood on my hands for going to work? Laura Ingraham confirmed again last night that the survival rate of COVID is 99.97% for people under 70 yoa and I'm sure many of those are not young healthy people with everything to live for but rather very sick people with other comorbidities. As you have admitted, much of the inflation, the recession, and gasoline prices we're suffering under now is due to the COVID response. Some of it Biden made worse by trying to squeeze in communist programs under the euphemism "infrastructure." But most of the stagflation, recession, etc is due to the COVID response, a response for a disease that has a 99.97% survival rate for people under 70!

The fact that you rely on disingenuous hacks like Laura Ingraham is par for the course. But the fact that you think it is OK to just ignore everyone above the age of 69 tells us the depths of your moral depravity and pseudo-patriotism where you think tens of thousands of Americans should die if it benefits your chosen autocrat. But that 99.97% figure is likely nonsense because FOX can't tell the whole truth about anything to save their own lives. The fact is over 1 million Americans have died during the pandemic and that figure likely would have been twice that had we done what you wanted and just lived life as normal.

I don't remember EA saying you had blood on your hands for merely going to work. Again, you have a habit of misrepresenting what people have said in the past so this wouldn't be a first.

Inflation isn't due to the COVID "response" it is simply due to how the market and the population in general respond to a pandemic. You're trying to lay blame on everything government does "in response" when the fact is the economy hit a brick wall well before anyone in government had even proposed mitigation measures. And as always you're trying to blame Democrats even when Republicans were the ones running the country. I remember quite vividly that month of March. By March 15 the stock market had crashed by more than 30%. Employees around the country were using sick time and vacation time. One of our new tenants who had just signed a lease on one of our properties in March 2020 started moving in but never did completed the move, because he and his girlfriend lost their jobs at Olive Garden. They weren't fired, they were just temporarily laid off until business picked up again. Business plummeted because pandemic fears made people want to hunker down until everyone had a better idea of what was happening. It wasn't the government that made Olive Garden do this, it was a decision made my a privately owned corporation and that trend caught on in corporate America because demand had plummeted. People stopped traveling, not because the government shut down travel, but because they were taking precautions. That's what you can't seem to get into your thick head. The pandemic was already shutting down the economy on many levels without government mandates. And the same thing will happen all over again unless we stay on top of things and keep producing vaccines as the virus mutates.

[Vēritās]

Exhibit A to the war on science and expertise. "virtue signaling" = stuff I'm politically opposed to.

You can't make this stuff up. One guy complains because government didn't do a better job telling us masks worked, and right after I point out that it wouldn't matter because the country is full of idiots who deny the science, along comes Binger to solidify my point.

[Res Ipsa]

Exhibit A to the war on science and expertise. "virtue signaling" = stuff I'm politically opposed to.

No.
Exhibit A in the war on science and expertise was making virtue signals despite science and facts. Masking as a signal, where the masks did not and do not work is the war on science. Vaccinating as a signal, where the vaccines are not working, is the war on science and expertise. Failing to address airborne infection control using known scientific methods is a war on science and expertise.

Pretending that a discussion with scientific methods is a political opposition is an extension of that war on science and an extension of the harsh division where facts are derided in favor of political affiliation.

Your reflexive use of the label "virtue signaling" to dismiss things you don't like is actual virtue signaling. You keep claiming that "masks did not work" without even defining what "masks working" means and why a reasonable person should accept your position. The same with "vaccines aren't working."

From the beginning, COVID patients were kept in negative pressure environments in hospitals, which makes your claims of anti-science complete nonsense.

This is just more of the same black and white thinking nonsense that you've tried to bury us in for months. I understand you have expertise in ventilation and air flow, but you're being the perfect example of the guy with the hammer treating everything as a nail. Simply parroting the phrase "airborne infection" vastly oversimplifies the ways that the virus can be and is transmitted.

[Hawkeye]

It wasn't the government that made Olive Garden do this, it was a decision made my a privately owned corporation and that trend caught on in corporate America because demand had plummeted.

Yes, yes, and draconian scamdemic curfews and restaurant closures had nothing to do with decrease demand at Olive Garden. Good grief, do you even read your own posts?

[drumdude]

It’s not going to protect every individual from death, but the science proving a level of effectiveness against infection from some coronavirus variants, or in mitigating more serious reactions when infected, runs counter to your claim.

Claims that the vaccines prevent infection have been debunked and abandoned.

Similarly, somewhere there’s a fellow selling air filtration systems to hospitals, which are environments not engineered to be completely sealed, nor are those systems capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of viral transmission between individuals within the building. You can, by your own oft-stated criteria, state that any such system advertised and sold to a hospital ‘is not working’, because it cannot be 100% effective. What do we tell the folks who market those systems?

You clearly do not understand the science, physics and math behind airborne infection control. Introducing "air filtration systems" and the sale of those systems to hospitals is a real clever way of saying you don't know either the science or the industry. The straw man suggestion that these so-called "air filtration systems" are not capable of immediately eliminating the possibility of a viral transmission is just comedy. I can't say what you are suggesting, and I do not say what you are suggesting.

I do not know the folks who market such a system. I do not know anyone making such claims. Anyone who pretends to have a system that can do that is a fraud or just someone you are imagining.

If you are interested in mechanical systems, infection control or life safety standards, all of that is available to you.

Vaccines and negative pressure rooms were proven to work well. You don’t have to filter the virus, you just need to get it outside.

The early vaccines prevented a ton of infection for the variant they were designed on. They’re not preventing infection for the newer variants.

[Binger]

Vaccines and negative pressure rooms were proven to work well.

You don’t have to filter the virus, you just need to get it outside.

The early vaccines prevented a ton of infection for the variant they were designed on.

They’re not preventing infection for the newer variants.

EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!

I will even give you credit on the clarification of your first point with the qualification of your last point.

I would add that positive pressure rooms are an equally important part of airborne infection control. Pressure is measured at envelope crossings between spaces.

[Binger]

No.
Exhibit A in the war on science and expertise was making virtue signals despite science and facts. Masking as a signal, where the masks did not and do not work is the war on science. Vaccinating as a signal, where the vaccines are not working, is the war on science and expertise. Failing to address airborne infection control using known scientific methods is a war on science and expertise.

Pretending that a discussion with scientific methods is a political opposition is an extension of that war on science and an extension of the harsh division where facts are derided in favor of political affiliation.

Your reflexive use of the label "virtue signaling" to dismiss things you don't like is actual virtue signaling. You keep claiming that "masks did not work" without even defining what "masks working" means and why a reasonable person should accept your position. The same with "vaccines aren't working."

From the beginning, COVID patients were kept in negative pressure environments in hospitals, which makes your claims of anti-science complete nonsense.

This is just more of the same black and white thinking nonsense that you've tried to bury us in for months. I understand you have expertise in ventilation and air flow, but you're being the perfect example of the guy with the hammer treating everything as a nail. Simply parroting the phrase "airborne infection" vastly oversimplifies the ways that the virus can be and is transmitted.

[Christopher Walken Voice]You seem upset, Res.

My use of the highlighted phrase was not reflexive, unless you are making the point that it was used to get a reaction. It was meant to make a point that some displays of compliance to a suggested response to COVID or the pandemic response were signals of what political leaders one endorsed or liked and not at all really thought out or practical or normal. Like not going outside without a mask, LOL! Like wearing a cowbell if you are not actually a Swiss cow.

The thing you made up about the rooms is not true but I like it. Not all COVID patients are in negative pressure environments and it is still not universally true. What about a COVID positive patient delivering a baby? What about a COVID positive patient with cancer? What about a COVID positive mother with a bay in NICU?

This is not black and white thinking, but if you need to think that, please, continue. Continue to rationalize your black and white thinking and your blaming of political divisiveness on anything other than your divisiveness. [/Christopher Walken Voice]

[canpakes]

Vaccines and negative pressure rooms were proven to work well. You don’t have to filter the virus, you just need to get it outside.

Of course. It’s absolutely true that these measures can reduce transmission between any two individuals. They’re just not perfect measures. I’m poking fun at Binger’s ‘must be perfect or does not work’ statements regarding vaccines. If you want to test this, ask Binger if vaccines can work against infection and if they can help mitigate infectious episodes. Or just read his previous statements.

There is no ‘100% perfect’ option for preventing infection, aside from death.

Meanwhile, regardless of the degree of protection offered by negative pressure rooms, these aren’t deployed in every public setting (nor could they be; that would be a ridiculous talking point). So their usefulness impacts an incredibly small part of the general population as it goes about daily business. They’re not a replacement for vaccines. Knowing that, and then mounting a campaign against vaccination on the premise that vaccinations yield absolutely no benefit, is irresponsible and advertises a particular political attitude than rejects actual science-based findings.

The early vaccines prevented a ton of infection for the variant they were designed on. They’re not preventing infection for the newer variants.

Binger has asserted above that they have not prevented infection nor do they mitigate infection effects. He has stated this since before variants evolved. I don’t agree with that statement; it sounds as if you may not agree with it either, and the existing science stands on our side, not Binger’s. Even with regard to variants, the link that I provided above shows some effectiveness against BA.1 and .2. It isn’t much, but it might be the difference between life or death for some individuals.