“King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

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Moksha
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:55 pm
Are you clairvoyant?

On Saturday (just a few days ago) I adopted a beautiful blue-eyed Alaskan Husky male dog that is TWO years old.

Wow, Moksha, you must be psychic.

:shock:
The dog that is pictured is named Blue (Bloosie-ondi-Bipedal in Reformed Egyptian).

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Blue goes Zoom
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Shulem
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King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his *HAND*

Post by Shulem »

From the The Great Harris Papyrus in the British Museum featuring Ramesses III with his pharaonic names written above his hand:

Be it understood that *THIS* is literally a king’s name and is rightly interpreted as such, Pharaoh Ramesses III, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.


Image


If Joseph Smith had possessed this vignette from the Harris Papyrus roll, it is anyone’s guess how he may have interpreted the persons and writing therein. I do not think any Mormon scholar today would speculate how he would have properly and correctly named the person as king Ramesses III. I feel this thread has proven beyond all doubt that Joseph Smith was wrong in his interpretations and translations of Facsimile No. 3 and the persons depicted therein. There are no arguments Mormon apologists can make to justify Joseph Smith’s corrupt readings of the papyri.

I rebuke all the leaders of the Church and I rebuke the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and squarely with finger pointed label him a conman and a false prophet.
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Shulem
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

An attempt by Egyptologist John Gee to reverse translate the five chapters of the Book of Abraham into hieroglyphic script would only serve to show how ridiculous it would be for monotheistic Abraham to record by his own hand religious doctrine and concepts using Egyptian characters. The Egyptian language is based on themes and images that attribute praise to the gods who reign in heaven and preside over earth through the incarnation of the Egyptian king.

Also, in order for Gee to correctly produce or simulate a name for an Egyptian king representing the characters of Fig. 2 in Facsimile 3, he would have to include the oval Cartouche which is standard fare in encircling a royal name. That is something Joseph Smith was not aware of when he ignorantly published his inspired (given by revelation) Explanations for the vignette in Times and Seasons. Had Smith known that names for Egyptian kings were ALWAYS written within an oval Cartouche, he would not have ascribed the person of Fig. 2 (Isis) as being “King Pharaoh.” Thus we see that the Explanation given therein is DOA. Nothing, absolutely nothing can salvage Smith’s false interpretation. The Mormons were wrong and they collectively as a church believed the lie.

I think John Gee and I can agree on that. The apologists have a weak argument in blaming the engraver (Reuben Hedlock) for poor characters but they can’t blame him for leaving out a Cartouche because there wasn’t one on the original papyrus! And that in and of itself wipes out Smith’s explanation that the writing contains a king’s name. Smith’s explanations were uninspired and totally wrong.

What part of that does the Church today not understand?
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

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"We shall fight to see who gets to avenge your snout. I will visit Dr. Gee if I win"
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Marcus
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Marcus »

Shulem, i have read very few things by Gee, et. Al., but i gave the section on the kings name a try.


To the best of my understanding, Gee, through Nibley is arguing that because the name of the Goddess Isis also means throne, and because the Pharoah sits on a throne, it's understandable he would confuse the two.

In other words, Smith called the Isis figure "Pharoah" because, in Gee's and his fellow author's minds, calling a queen a king because queen means throne is really, really close to correct.

Do i have that right?
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:00 am
Shulem, i have read very few things by Gee, et. Al., but i gave the section on the kings name a try.


To the best of my understanding, Gee, through Nibley is arguing that because the name of the Goddess Isis also means throne, and because the Pharoah sits on a throne, it's understandable he would confuse the two.

In other words, Smith called the Isis figure "Pharoah" because, in Gee's and his fellow author's minds, calling a queen a king because queen means throne is really, really close to correct.

Do i have that right?

Yep, I think you get the idea. Here are several links to individual posts in this thread that explain the argument. Please review them as you are able.

Page 2
Page 2
Page 9
Page 9
Page 10
Page 19
Page 23
Page 30
Page 37
Page 37
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Marcus »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:24 pm
Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:00 am
Shulem, i have read very few things by Gee, et. Al., but i gave the section on the kings name a try.


To the best of my understanding, Gee, through Nibley is arguing that because the name of the Goddess Isis also means throne, and because the Pharoah sits on a throne, it's understandable he would confuse the two.

In other words, Smith called the Isis figure "Pharoah" because, in Gee's and his fellow author's minds, calling a queen a king because queen means throne is really, really close to correct.

Do i have that right?

Yep, I think you get the idea. Here are several links to individual posts in this thread that explain the argument. Please review them as you are able.

Page 2
Page 2
Page 9
Page 9
Page 10
Page 19
Page 23
Page 30
Page 37
Page 37
Thank you Shulem! I will review those. I am just astonished at the length these authors will go to, to avoid simply considering Smith was wrong.
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Marcus »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:46 pm
Shulem wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:24 pm



Yep, I think you get the idea. Here are several links to individual posts in this thread that explain the argument. Please review them as you are able.

Page 2
Page 2
Page 9
Page 9
Page 10
Page 19
Page 23
Page 30
Page 37
Page 37
Thank you Shulem! I will review those. I am just astonished at the length these authors will go to, to avoid simply considering Smith was wrong.
Wow, I’m only 2 in and it’s already far worse than I remembered. Honestly, the apologetic knots they have to twist themselves into are an embarrassment. And Nibley was smart but he really just made stuff up, right? What hubris.
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Shulem
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Shulem »

Marcus wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2023 3:18 pm
Wow, I’m only 2 in and it’s already far worse than I remembered. Honestly, the apologetic knots they have to twist themselves into are an embarrassment. And Nibley was smart but he really just made stuff up, right? What hubris.

I’m so glad you are here and digesting my material. I promise you, if you will digest all my Book of Abraham threads you will be an expert on the subject! I cut through the lies of the apologists and have destroyed the Book of Abraham. The church is making its last stand but will ultimately fail because their position is based on a lie.

And now, the Backyard Professor has really caught the spirit and will deep-dive into the issues more than ever. Watch in real time how the Church implodes from within!

Grab your popcorn!

Amen.
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Re: “King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head”

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

From page 9 - “… not too tricky.”

Gmafb. It’s still “tricky.” You have to literally make that mental gymnastics leap to switch up the genders and then ascribe ‘Queen of the Throne’ to ‘throne’ and then make the description meant for the Queen of the Throne fit for ‘pharaoh’.

These guys. Would it be so hard to simply say, “It doesn’t fit. It’s not correct.”?

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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