Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

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TwoCumorahFraud
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Re: Radio Free Mormon

Post by TwoCumorahFraud »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:00 am
Moksha wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 am
Could make a case that those scenes influenced Joseph's actions with Fanny in the barn more than the Book of Abraham.

Or perhaps a young man of Joseph’s personal liking in which to embrace or compare size? It wouldn’t surprise me to know that he may have experimented with other boys.

But now I digress... cough, excuse me I need a tissue.

Where is John Gee? Has anyone seen him? I would like to ask him a few questions.
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Re: Radio Free Mormon

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Jawbone wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:37 am
And how is it the Book of Abraham is a false narrative when the sacred or ritual embrace is found in ancient Egyptian temples?
The Book of Abraham says nothing about sacred or ritual embraces.
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Re: Radio Free Mormon

Post by Moksha »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:38 am
Jawbone wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:37 am
And how is it the Book of Abraham is a false narrative when the sacred or ritual embrace is found in ancient Egyptian temples?
The Book of Abraham says nothing about sacred or ritual embraces.
For that, you might have to turn to another ancient text that Joseph did not have time to add to, the Kama Sutra.
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Alphus and Omegus
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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

Like most LDS visitors to the board, Jawbone seems to have trouble making a coherent argument beyond 3 sentences.

He actually cannot answer anywhere close to the totality of the problems with Smith's Book of Abraham so he does not even attempt to do so. Instead, in his weakness, he tries to raise tiny and irrelevant distractions. Jawbone knows what he's saying is irrelevant, but he takes Shulem's irritation at such low intellectualism as a victory, because that's all he has. He certainly doesn't have any facts.

I guess that works for some people? I think the rest of us are more interested in believing what's true.
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Shulem
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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

Post by Shulem »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:41 pm
raise tiny and irrelevant distractions

Which is LDS Book of Abraham apologetics in a nutshell! Distractions that mean very little and add up to practically nothing.

Which is pretty much what LDS apologists do in trying to defend the Book of Abraham from every point of view and they offer a wide array of all kinds of distractions to do just that. And everyone has been conditioned and programed to avoid the main issue that is so large and so vast in scope that it has become the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about let alone see, including critics who have become so distracted and blinded by the classical mess that they too are asleep.

Well, what is that elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about? It’s 2300 BC being the literal time in which Egypt was founded according to Mormonism which stakes its reputation in endorsing that idea as a literal and historical explanation coming from their God who was supposedly there witnessing the event.

But the Mormon god is wrong. He was not there when Egypt was first founded! The Mormon god is ignorant of the facts. Egypt was not founded in 2300 BC by a woman. THAT is utterly and totally false. THIS is the big picture that destroys the Catalyst Theory and critics need to realize this and step into square one.
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In The Beginning

Post by Shulem »

Over 5,000 years ago this important river was the vital life-source in which the emerging Egyptian civilization depended on for everything in which to survive. The Nile truly was a gift of life.

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By Any Other Name

Post by Shulem »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:38 am
Jawbone wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:37 am
And how is it the Book of Abraham is a false narrative when the sacred or ritual embrace is found in ancient Egyptian temples?
The Book of Abraham says nothing about sacred or ritual embraces.

Neither does the Book of Abraham and its bogus history include any of the Egyptian gods by NAME. The names that Joseph Smith gave in the story and in the facsimiles are not Egyptian names and have no credit or merit whatsoever. There is nothing worse in Egyptian ideology than omitting names of the gods and moreover the name of the king who is their earthly representation -- as a god incarnate.

John Gee will attest to this and back me up. He knows. Isn’t that right, John? You know! You were taught and schooled by one of the best, Robert Ritner!
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Get rid of it

Post by Shulem »

I feel it’s safe to say that a great many Mormon apologists and scholars would welcome the idea of the church omitting the Facsimiles from a future edition of the Book of Abraham as presented in the Pearl of Great Price. I’ve heard that sentiment from several apologists over the years and it seems this has actually turned into a steady drum beat that is ready for the change. But how many apologists and Mormon scholars actually go out of their way to advocate for the Facsimiles in an effort to ensure they are forever preserved in LDS canon? Facsimile apologetics has ever been a defensive effort and offers nothing to convince nonmembers of the church that the Explanations of the Facsimiles are worthy of any praise from world scholarship. Only the Mormons accept the explanations on faith as they twist, distort, and pervert real Egyptology in order to fit Smith’s bogus ideas. The Book of Abraham has ever been an embarrassment for the church.

Now, with that said, how about chapter one of the Book of Abraham? How many apologists and church scholars are in favor of ripping this bogus chapter of Egyptian history from the covers of the Book of Abraham? There simply is no way to defend it using real scholarship via science as a means to assemble the Egyptian historical puzzle. So, let’s rip chapter one from the book. Then, chapter two, and so on.

I believe this is entirely reasonable! Do you?
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Joseph Smith’s Egypt came after the flood

Post by Shulem »

Smith was wont to stick with the biblical timeline and incorporated that into his own revelations and pronouncements. There is simply no way that modern apologists can get around it. There is no getting over, or under, or around this very important point. Smith made it absolutely and abundantly clear that the foundation and birth of the nation state of Egypt began AFTER the flood in 2300 BC. Here is an example in which Smith published his teachings about world governments established by God and mentions Egypt coming *after* the flood.

Times and Seasons, 15 July 1842 wrote:
It has been the design of Jehovah, from the commencement of the world, and is his purpose now, to regulate the affairs of the world in his own time; to stand as head of the universe, and take the reigns of government into his own hand. When that is done judgment will be administered in righteousness; anarchy and confusion will be destroyed, and “nations will earn war no more.” It is for want of this great governing principle that all this confusion has existed; “for it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps;” this we have fully shewn.

If there was any thing great or good in the world it came from God. The construction of the first vessel was given to Noah, by revelation. The design of the ark was given by God “a pattern of heavenly things.” The learning of the Egyptians, and their knowledge of astronomy was no doubt taught them by Abraham and Joseph, as their records testify, who received it from the Lord. The art of working in brass, silver, gold, and precious stones, was taught by revelation, in the wilderness. The architectural designs of the Temple at Jerusalem, together with its ornament and beauty was given of God. Wisdom to govern the house of Israel was given to Solomon, and to the judges of Israel; and if he had always been their king, and they subject to his mandate, and obedient to his laws, they would still have been a great and mighty people; the rulers of the universe—and the wonder of the world. If Nebuchadnezzar, or Darius, or Cyrus, or any other king possessed knowledge or power it was from the same source, as the scriptures abundantly testify. If then, God puts up one, and sets down another, at his pleasure—and made instruments of kings, unknown to themselves, to fulfill his prophesies, how much more was he able, if man would have been subject to his mandate, to regulate the affairs of this world, and promote peace and happiness among the human family.

Note how Joseph Smith credits the Egyptians for having learned about astronomy from Abraham. But the ancient Egyptians were master astronomers long before Abraham’s time and their records, monuments, and religious teachings are proof that they were aware of the stars and planets and astronomy was central to their understanding of the heavens above.

Note that Smith makes it perfectly clear how the Egyptians learned about astronomy when they were taught by Abraham and Joseph “AS THEIR RECORDS TESTIFY.” What records? The Book of Abraham and the Book of Joseph -- two scrolls named by Smith in which he purchased from Chandler in 1835. This is further proof that Smith claimed to have the original autographs written by the hands of the patriarchs themselves!

I’ll bet the BYP didn’t know that. Right?
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Re: Historical Predynastic Egypt vs. Book of Abraham False Narrative

Post by Moksha »

Without the dishonesty of rewriting their religious texts, why not just declare them pseudepigrapha and make their usage optional as the Community of Christ does? I think the habit of "Lying for the Church" should be broken.
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