The First Vision

[Shulem]

Here’s the deal:

Imagine 14-year-old Joseph actually seeing TWO persons in an 1820 vision in which one of them introduced the other by pointing the finger. Any information or testimonial Joseph may have shared with anyone between 1820-1835 would have been leaked and the public would have been apprised of a Christian heresy originating from the Smith family farm.

Joseph Smith never, ever, claimed to see two persons in a vision prior to changing his beliefs of the Godhead from Trinitarian to a plurality of the gods.

Cased closed.

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I bear my testimony that I know with every part of my mind and heart that Joseph Smith’s 1838 testimonial of seeing two persons in vision is a lie. Smith elected to continue a ministry which was founded upon lies.

The Church is NOT true. Even so,

Amen.

[Brack]

Some LDS Apologists have claimed that the phrase "from on high" within the introductory paragraph from the 1832 account of the first vision is a reference to God the Father.

"...an account of the rise of the church of Christ in the eve of time according as the Lord brought forth and established by his hand firstly he receiving the testamony from on high..."

The phrase "from on high" is found only one time within the Book of Mormon. It is in Ether chapter six verse 17.

Ether 6:17 - And they were taught to walk humbly before the Lord; and they were also taught from on high.

Here is a commentary on this Book of Mormon passage, which doesn't seem to equate the phrase "from on high" to God the Father.

verse 17 "they were also taught from on high" It would seem that the ideal formula for acquiring spiritual intelligence or light and truth is the combination of mental exertion and prayerful pleading and pondering. In this way we qualify for the Spirit's endowments.

Link

[Shulem]

Some LDS Apologists have claimed that the phrase "from on high" within the introductory paragraph from the 1832 account of the first vision is a reference to God the Father.

The Teacher from on high *is* none other than the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 32:15), “Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high.” Jesus reconfirmed this doctrine in John saying, “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

1. The Father teaches nobody because all teachings come through the Spirit (John 14:26)
2. The Father judges nobody because all judgment is given to the Son (John 5:22)

In a revelation given to Joseph Smith in 1831, Jesus announced he is the Savior of the world and that men are taught of the things of God through the Spirit from on high.

Again I say, hearken ye elders of my church, whom I have appointed: Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit;

And ye are to be taught from on high. Sanctify yourselves and ye shall be endowed with power, that ye may give even as I have spoken.

[Gadianton]

Haven't read the whole thing yet but this is epic. The influence of the papyri.

[Shulem]

Haven't read the whole thing yet but this is epic. The influence of the papyri.

Hello!

I’m so glad you made it into this thread, Gad. Take your time. Comment if you want or if you don’t want that’s fine too.

[Shulem]

Some say I do not interpret the Scripture the same as they do. They say it means the heathen’s gods. Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many; and that makes a plurality of Gods, in spite of the whims of all men. Without a revelation, I am not going to give them the knowledge of the God of heaven. You know and I testify that Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods. I have it from God, and get over it if you can. I have a witness of the Holy Ghost, and a testimony that Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods in the text.

Wrong!

What do other translations that are superior to the KJV have to say? Do they contradict Joseph Smith’s Holy Ghost?

See here:

NIV
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),

AMP
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

AMPC
For although there may be so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many of them, both of gods and of lords and masters,

CEB
Granted, there are so-called “gods,” in heaven and on the earth, as there are many gods and many lords.

CEV
Many things in heaven and on earth are called gods and lords, but none of them really are gods or lords.

ERV
It’s really not important if there are things called gods in heaven or on earth—and there are many of these “gods” and “lords” out there.

EASY
It is true that people call many things their gods. Those are things both in heaven and on earth. Those people have many gods and many lords.


etc...

[Shulem]

And yet the Church today continues to support Smith’s erroneous reading of a plurality of Gods in reference to the statement made by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians. The Mormons double down against traditional Christianity and continue to misinterpret KJV biblical text in favor of Smith’s modern reading of the Bible:

What did Paul mean that there are “gods many, and lords many”?

Paul taught that idols, or false gods, do not exist. He affirmed that “there is but one God, the Father, … and one Lord Jesus Christ.”

The Prophet Joseph Smith provided additional insight: “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit; and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. …

“Some say I do not interpret [Paul’s teachings in 1 Corinthians 8:5] the same as they do. They say it means the heathen’s gods. Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many; and that makes a plurality of Gods. … I have a witness of the Holy Ghost, and a testimony that Paul had no allusion to the heathen gods in the text.”

The Primeval Council in the Heavens.

—“It is definitely stated in the Book of Genesis that God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness’; and again, after Adam had taken of the forbidden fruit the Lord said, ‘Behold, the man has become as one of us’; and the inference is direct that in all that related to the work of the creation of the world there was a consultation; and though God spake as it is recorded in the Bible, yet it is evident He counseled with others. The scriptures tell us there are ‘Gods many and Lords many. But to us there is but one God, the Father’ (1 Corinthians 8:5). And for this reason, though there were others engaged in the creation of the worlds, it is given to us in the Bible in the shape that it is; for the fulness of these truths is only revealed to highly favored persons for certain reasons known to God; as we are told in the scriptures: ‘The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.’—Psalm 25:14.

[Shulem]

Smith completely ignored Adam Clarke’s commentary on 1 Corinthians in effort to take Mormonism away from traditional Christian beliefs and venture into the plurality of Gods:

Verse 1 Corinthians 8:5. There be that are called gods — There are many images that are supposed to be representations of divinities: but these divinities are nothing, the figments of mere fancy; and these images have no corresponding realities.

Whether in heaven or in earth — As the sun, moon, planets, stars, the ocean, rivers, trees, &c. And thus there are, nominally, gods many, and lords many.

Smith had no excuse for his misreading. The entire Christian world today rejects his so-called revelation through what he claimed was the Holy Ghost.

[Shulem]

...The account does not testify that Joseph Smith saw the Father. It only testifies that he saw Jesus who recalls the future prophecy of the second coming and spoke of the Father’s glory but not in the sense of him being present:

“Behold and lo, I come quickly, as it is written of me, in the cloud, clothed in the glory of my Father.”

We conclude that Joseph Smith did not mention that the Father appeared to him because he did not consider the Father to be a separate Person but was manifested strictly through the appearance of the Son. To see the Son was to see the Father! One Person only!

The “Father” is not physically present and neither is there a *finger* “pointing to the other” as described in the embellished First Vision account produced several years later. We are informed that Jesus (“Lord of glory”) prophesied how he would come “in the cloud ​clothed​ in the glory of my Father” in a future event known as the Second Coming. But, we ascertain by the 1832 account, the Father was not physically on scene and neither was he present in form of a Man who “spake” directly to Joseph by name and then point to a second Personage (“Beloved Son”). Smith’s earliest testimonial is that one Person (Jesus) appeared to him -- one Person only!

Notice how Smith’s “Lord of glory” (Jesus) prophesied of the Second Coming in the same fashion as he did in the Bible wherein ONE PERSON ONLY would make the appearance as the physical manifestation of God:

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

So, we may logically conclude that while Jesus was said to be speaking to the boy Joseph in the “wilderness” (grove of trees), he alone was present and spoke of his Father in the same fashion and manner as he did during his mortal ministry. It’s all made very clear that ONLY Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith while praying in the wilderness. That was the vision! That was the FIRST testimony!

The later testimony about TWO PERSONAGES is a fabricated lie! It never happened.

I bear testimony and say this in the name of Jesus Christ,

Amen.

[Brack]

St. Paul was strictly monotheistic who believed that only the Father is God. He didn't believed that the other two members of the Trinity are also God.

1st Corinthians 8: (NKJV)
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

1st Corinthians 11: (NKJV)
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

2nd Corinthians 13: (NKJV)
14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.