Book of Mormon Geography

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Limnor
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Re: Cumorah

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Shulem wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 7:32 pm
Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 6:56 pm
I think that hill had more than one name throughout the development of the book. I think Shim was Miner’s Hill.

Nah. That does not work for me.

The land of Nephi is where all things began and everything worked its way due northward -- ever northward:
Alma 23:12 wrote:And also of the people of the Lamanites who were in the land of Shilom, and who were in the land of Shemlon, and in the city of Lemuel, and in the city of Shimnilom.

So, the name Shim was already in use but in the end it became Cumorah/Ramah where plates would be buried. Right in Smith’s backyard!
The nomination of candidate Shim is because that’s the place where the records are first placed by Ammoron (Parley P Pratt) for later retrieval by Mormon (Joseph), while Cumorah is the place where the completed record is deposited for the future.

Under the roman à clef model, the two hills represent “drop-off” points in the editorial process.
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Re: Cumorah

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Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 8:20 pm
The nomination of candidate Shim is because that’s the place where the records are first placed by Ammoron (Parley P Pratt) for later retrieval by Mormon (Joseph), while Cumorah is the place where the completed record is deposited for the future.

Under the roman à clef model, the two hills represent “drop-off” points in the editorial process.

We have already discussed how the historical record accounts for the Pratts being unknown/nonexistent to Joseph Smith prior to the translation of the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith had already worked out the whole Cumorah geography prior to dictating a single word to Martin Harris. The Pratts had absolutely nothing to do with the making of the Book of Mormon.

The whole point was to get the plates from Delmarva to New York as expressed between the words of the text. The Limited Geography Theory is spot on -- in the right place!
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Limnor
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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I don’t think the Pratts are necessary to my point.

What I’m observing is that the geography seems to function as a narrative device. Hill Shim is the first repository of the records, where they are deposited and later retrieved for abridgment. Hill Cumorah serves as the final repository, where the completed record is deposited the future.

To me, those two hills bracket the editorial life of the record. I think at least some of the geography is symbolic of the production of the book itself.

That’s something that can be explored from the text itself, regardless of whether one accepts Delmarva, Mesoamerica, or New York as the underlying geography. Which has led me to the Pratts as candidates.

I also think we talked about Pratt relatives living in the Palmyra region in the early 1820s, and Parley traveling in western New York before settling in Ohio. That isn’t evidence of collaboration but it does place Parley within about ten miles from the Smiths in that timeframe.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 9:16 pm
To me, those two hills bracket the editorial life of the record. I think at least some of the geography is symbolic of the production of the book itself.

How hardly would Joseph have known anything about the goings on at Minor's Hill, a family farm of little consequence in northern Virginia. It was not a destination and bore no significance.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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Shulem wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 10:20 pm
Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 9:16 pm
To me, those two hills bracket the editorial life of the record. I think at least some of the geography is symbolic of the production of the book itself.

How hardly would Joseph have known anything about the goings on at Minor's Hill, a family farm of little consequence in northern Virginia. It was not a destination and bore no significance.
I think we’re talking about two different places.

I’m referring to Miner’s Hill near Palmyra, New York, discussed in Dan Vogel’s research on Joseph Smith’s treasure-seeking.

Excerpt from a Vogel paper:
Probably the most extensive Smith-inspired dig resulted in the excava­tion of a cave in a hill known to later Manchester residents as “Miner’s Hill”[22] on land subsequently owned by Amos Miner and his heirs (see Photo 2). Lorenzo Saunders, a Smith family friend and former resident of Palmyra, was an eye-witness to the digging on the hill’s northeast side. “I used to go there & see them work,” he recalled in 1884. “I seen the old man [Smith] dig there day in and day out. . . . Joseph Smith [Jr.] never did work.”[23] JosephJr. had a different role in the quest. Joseph Sr. told Saunders that “Jo. [Jr.] could see in his peep stone what there was in that cave,” and that “young Joe could . . . see a man sitting in a gold chair. Old Joe said he was king i.e. the man in the chair; a king of one of the . . . [Indian] <tribes> who was shut in there in the time of one of their big battles.”[24] After a tunnel of considerable length had been excavated, the diggers placed a heavy wooden door at the entrance.

While Saunders believed the cave had been dug in 1826,[25] historical context suggests an earlier date. Saunders declared, “I am one of them that went & tore the door down to the cave. My Father was in possession & he ordered us to break that door down & Put the hole up.”[26] The cave had evidently been completed before the death of Enoch Saunders on 10 October 1825.[27]

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/article ... re-quests/
I think this was Shim Hill.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

Post by Shulem »

Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 10:29 pm
I think we’re talking about two different places.

I’m referring to Miner’s Hill near Palmyra, New York, discussed in Dan Vogel’s research on Joseph Smith’s treasure-seeking.

Excerpt from a Vogel paper:
Well, bust my buttons!

Why didn't you say that in the first place? That's a horse of a different color!

Come on in!


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Limnor
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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Shulem wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 11:34 pm
Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 10:29 pm
I think we’re talking about two different places.

I’m referring to Miner’s Hill near Palmyra, New York, discussed in Dan Vogel’s research on Joseph Smith’s treasure-seeking.

Excerpt from a Vogel paper:
Well, bust my buttons!

Why didn't you say that in the first place? That's a horse of a different color!

Come on in!


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Haha! It’s difficult to communicate the entirety of the ideas because there is so much data.
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Re: Book of Mormon Geography

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Limnor wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2026 10:29 pm
I think this was Shim Hill.
That is certainly an excellent choice. Shim Hill in the land Antum hosted the city of Jashon and was close to Cumorah where the final war was fought and the Nephite civilization was destroyed:
Ether 9:3 wrote:....and came over and passed by the hill of Shim, and came over by the place where the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward...
It was a hop, skip, and jump from Shim to Cumorah.
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