Was there a First God?

[_marg]

But my poor brain is traveling at the speed of light and I may be all wet in most of my assumptions. The thing we need to do is to ask God if what we have discovered is true.

You seem to have 2 ways to determine knowledge...one is to ask God, the other is to use sacred text. Both methods while they may satisify yourself are unreliable. Knowledge about how the world and universe operate is much more reliable when observations, transparent evidence, testing and objective critical evaluation are employed than when individuals or groups make claims upon which they offer no transparent evidence for critical examination.

The easiest and yet most unreliable methodology in the world as far as making statements with claims to knowledge ..is to simply claim it and offer no means to evaluate it. That requires no accuracy, no relevance to the actual world at all. One can simply be claiming pure fantasy rather than anything close to reality, if there is no means to objectively evaluate the claim. And is what you appear to do in all your posts Grampa75.

[_moksha]

One other thing: aren't Mormons the only people who believe that God created other worlds?

I think once the Catholics were able to apologize, for making Galileo recant his heresy, hundreds of years later, they opened up the possibility that other worlds exist.

So the Book suggests that God knows the answer and we don't? A lot of theology is based on this premise.

[_ozemc]

I would just like to ask a question before answering our dear friend who is Catholic.

In the Book of Moses we can read a dialog between Moses and God, God tells Moses, "The worlds I have created are without number to man, but they are numbered unto me because I know them for they are mine."

Let me ask you a question; If we were to ask God to measure the infinitesimally emptyness of space and give us an answer as to how far it was across the whole of space; could God give us an answer? Of course not! God cannot measure or weigh the infinite any more than we can. But how is it then that God claims to Moses that he can number the worlds, when he says, "But they are numbered unto me."

Is that just God's way of leting us know that there was indeed a first world?

grampa75

I guess the main answer to your question is "no", there was no "1st" God. Whomever, or whatever, God is, God is eternal, and always "is". Eternity is timeless and unchanging, so God is timeless and unchanging.

As to the idea that God cannot measure or weigh the infinite ... my question would be: how do you know? Are you God? Who can know the mind of God? Can YOU measure the distance across millions of galaxies? God can, since He made them.

What a very limited view of God you have.

Of course, most, if not all, religions, IMHO, have a very limited, almost earth-centric, if you will, view of God.

[_Some Schmo]

What a very limited view of God you have.

Of course, most, if not all, religions, IMHO, have a very limited, almost earth-centric, if you will, view of God.

Are you actually being critical of his view of god? You realize that this presupposes that you have a better view, right?

I just love it when people start arguing over who has a more accurate picture of their imaginary friend.

[_ozemc]

What a very limited view of God you have.

Of course, most, if not all, religions, IMHO, have a very limited, almost earth-centric, if you will, view of God.

Are you actually being critical of his view of god? You realize that this presupposes that you have a better view, right?

I just love it when people start arguing over who has a more accurate picture of their imaginary friend.

Whatever, Schmo.

I don't presuppose anything. What I'm saying is that, if you do believe in God, and whatever your religion supposes, then whatever or whomever God is, he, she, or it is much, much greater than anything anyone can ever write about him, her, it on this tiny planet.

[_Some Schmo]

Whatever, Schmo.

I don't presuppose anything. What I'm saying is that, if you do believe in God, and whatever your religion supposes, then whatever or whomever God is, he, she, or it is much, much greater than anything anyone can ever write about him, her, it on this tiny planet.

Whatever indeed.

Don't you get it that whether you believe in god or not, and whatever your conception of him is, it is a figment of your imagination, and you have absolutely no idea whether it's accurate or not?

You absolutely do presuppose something. You're presupposing that "he, she, or it is much, much greater than anything anyone can ever write about him, her, it on this tiny planet." How the heck do you know that? You don't. For all you know, this planet could be one of the fart particles from a blind turtle sitting on the back of an endless pile of elephants, and the turtle hasn't given it a second thought since it left its butt.

Your idea here is simply something you've conceived of in your head as to what god would have to be in order to be who you think he must be, but that has nothing to do with reality.

So again, have fun with your "my idea of god is more accurate than your idea" idea. But on this, you (and everybody else) don’t have a clue except to say that the chances of a god’s existence are practically nil.

[_ozemc]

Whatever, Schmo.

I don't presuppose anything. What I'm saying is that, if you do believe in God, and whatever your religion supposes, then whatever or whomever God is, he, she, or it is much, much greater than anything anyone can ever write about him, her, it on this tiny planet.

Whatever indeed.

Don't you get it that whether you believe in god or not, and whatever your conception of him is, it is a figment of your imagination, and you have absolutely no idea whether it's accurate or not?

You absolutely do presuppose something. You're presupposing that "he, she, or it is much, much greater than anything anyone can ever write about him, her, it on this tiny planet." How the heck do you know that? You don't. For all you know, this planet could be one of the fart particles from a blind turtle sitting on the back of an endless pile of elephants, and the turtle hasn't given it a second thought since it left its butt.

Please read first. If you will note my quote actually begins with "If you believe in God" ...

Therefore, I was NOT claiming to know anything about the nature of God, of even if there is one, and was refering to the ideas and claims that have been written about God throughout the ages.

Specifically, I was putting forth the argument that we CAN'T know the nature of God, or if there is one, by what is written here.

Obviously, you don't believe in a God.

As to your idea of what this planet really is, I think I'll defer to science and what we can see and take measurements of. I guess you're kind of caught in the existential stuff we did back in college.

You know, the old "We could just be in a dust cloud, or it's all just someone's dream, or ...".

Your idea here is simply something you've conceived of in your head as to what god would have to be in order to be who you think he must be, but that has nothing to do with reality.

So again, have fun with your "my idea of god is more accurate than your idea" idea. But on this, you (and everybody else) don’t have a clue except to say that the chances of a god’s existence are practically nil.

Interesting.

You complain about someone's argument that "my idea of god is more accurate than your idea" and then you turn around and do the same thing by saying that "my idea of no god is better than your idea of a god."

Like you said, no one really knows for sure, do we?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[_truth dancer]

Let me ask you a question; If we were to ask God to measure the infinitesimally emptyness of space and give us an answer as to how far it was across the whole of space; could God give us an answer? Of course not!

Why not? I would certainly assume if such a being existed that being would've course know the answer to such an easy question.

I mean simple, earthly, human, scientists can measure this. They know how fast the universe is expanding, how fast the expansion rate is increasing, how many particles are in the universe, etc. etc. Measureing space or infinity or whatever should be a no brainer.

~dancer~

[_Some Schmo]

Please read first. If you will note my quote actually begins with "If you believe in God" ...

Therefore, I was NOT claiming to know anything about the nature of God, of even if there is one, and was refering to the ideas and claims that have been written about God throughout the ages.

Specifically, I was putting forth the argument that we CAN'T know the nature of God, or if there is one, by what is written here.

Obviously, you don't believe in a God.

As to your idea of what this planet really is, I think I'll defer to science and what we can see and take measurements of. I guess you're kind of caught in the existential stuff we did back in college.

You know, the old "We could just be in a dust cloud, or it's all just someone's dream, or ...".

Your idea here is simply something you've conceived of in your head as to what god would have to be in order to be who you think he must be, but that has nothing to do with reality.

So again, have fun with your "my idea of god is more accurate than your idea" idea. But on this, you (and everybody else) don’t have a clue except to say that the chances of a god’s existence are practically nil.

Interesting.

You complain about someone's argument that "my idea of god is more accurate than your idea" and then you turn around and do the same thing by saying that "my idea of no god is better than your idea of a god."

Like you said, no one really knows for sure, do we?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Huh? Um... yeah. You accuse me of not reading your post and then proceed to fully demonstrate that you barely glanced at mine. I see. (Either that or your reading comprehension has serious issues all by itself. I won't stake a claim either way). Are you sure you really want to call hypocrisy here?

And then you go on to back track on the things you'd previously claimed and decided to maintain your blind spots at all costs. Sweet.

I could go into a list of the ways in which you misread my post and demonstrated inconsistencies, but then you'd likely misread this post, and then I'd have to re-explain it, and where would it all end?

[_Moron Brother]

Transfinite algebra has been developed by such great men as Greg Cantor and David Hilbert.

Let's hear it for Hilbert space!