Consequences of apostasy....

[_harmony]

As it stands I can perceive no detrimental consequences from apostasy.

I'm assuming your family isn't BIC, DUP, or part of the Restoration crowd?

[_harmony]

Why not? Being the "center" of one's own universe doesn't mean that nothing exists beyond the center.

actually it does, that is sort of the meaning of the term.
being at the "center" of the universe is not an actual physical location, but conceptual, as in all things from that. That is to say the universe is only composed of what the "self" is composed of....beyond that there is nothing else.

These two phrases are not compatible.

"All things from that": the from implies more than just the "that", whatever "that" may be.

"Only composed of": the only implies there is only one, and no more.

So which is it?

[_UnicornMan]

I have done many of those things while being an active member of the Church such as gaining weight, spending unwisely, being irritable or distracted from my family life by less noble pursuits.

There are people at Church who will point to the bad things in your life and blame it on less-activity. However, when those same bad things happen to active members with temple recommends, they find other reasons.

Ultimately, it's your own choices that do this -- and you can be thin, a saver, a family man, self-controlled in your drinking habits inside or outside of the Church. It's a personal choice, and more indicative of your personal relationship with God rather your relationship with the Church.

For some, being at Church can help with those things. Not the weight, maybe the saving a bit, but not in any practical way -- but at a conceptual level. In fact you might argue that tithing makes it actually harder to save. That's a no-brainer for me.

So, while I think Church experience can be positive for many, i don't jump to concluding that dissaffection leads to decline necessarily.

In fact I have been disaffected lately, and although I attend regularly, and live the basic commandments, I have found:

a) I have less stress in my life now that I'm not going full-tilt all the time.

b) My family has more time to spend together, so we do.

c) I feel better about the Church in my life than I did when I was TBM.

d) The Church is in a better, lower place in my priorities in life at this time in my life phase.

e) I have finally paid off some of my debts (no irresponsible ones, but mortgages for example). I can't tell you the peace that brings me with unemployment looming -- knowing that my house costs me as little as a one-bedroom apartment, primarily in taxes and insurance and utilities!!! And that we can survive on my wife's income if necessary.

I never had that kind of financial peace when I was TBM and giving away all my savings to the Church each year.

f) I feel happier than I did when I was TBM.

I stil go to Church however, and hold modified FHE and encourage my kids to attend, but not the same full-tilt commitment I once had. And I'm better off for it!!!

[_Drifting]

I have done many of those things while being an active member of the Church such as gaining weight, spending unwisely, being irritable or distracted from my family life by less noble pursuits.

There are people at Church who will point to the bad things in your life and blame it on less-activity. However, when those same bad things happen to active members with temple recommends, they find other reasons.

Ultimately, it's your own choices that do this -- and you can be thin, a saver, a family man, self-controlled in your drinking habits inside or outside of the Church. It's a personal choice, and more indicative of your personal relationship with God rather your relationship with the Church.

For some, being at Church can help with those things. Not the weight, maybe the saving a bit, but not in any practical way -- but at a conceptual level. In fact you might argue that tithing makes it actually harder to save. That's a no-brainer for me.

So, while I think Church experience can be positive for many, i don't jump to concluding that dissaffection leads to decline necessarily.

In fact I have been disaffected lately, and although I attend regularly, and live the basic commandments, I have found:

a) I have less stress in my life now that I'm not going full-tilt all the time.

b) My family has more time to spend together, so we do.

c) I feel better about the Church in my life than I did when I was TBM.

d) The Church is in a better, lower place in my priorities in life at this time in my life phase.

e) I have finally paid off some of my debts (no irresponsible ones, but mortgages for example). I can't tell you the peace that brings me with unemployment looming -- knowing that my house costs me as little as a one-bedroom apartment, primarily in taxes and insurance and utilities!!! And that we can survive on my wife's income if necessary.

I never had that kind of financial peace when I was TBM and giving away all my savings to the Church each year.

f) I feel happier than I did when I was TBM.

I stil go to Church however, and hold modified FHE and encourage my kids to attend, but not the same full-tilt commitment I once had. And I'm better off for it!!!

Are you me?

I am much, MUCH, happier and more balanced as a person by being a Church attending non TBM.

[_UnicornMan]

Then you have met one of the object and designs of our existence -- "happiness"! As Joseph Smith said.

The Church prescription for happiness did not work for me after years of trying. It made me miserable at times. I feel much better now that I have put it in its proper place in my life.

And I recognize its place in my life can change -- who knows, I may act like a TBM again because I WANT TO at some point, and not out of a sense of duty like I did for so many angst-filled years.

[_UnicornMan]

Then you have met one of the object and designs of our existence -- "happiness"! As Joseph Smith said.

The Church prescription for happiness did not work for me after years of trying. It made me miserable at times. I feel much better now that I have put it in its proper place in my life.

And I recognize its place in my life can change -- who knows, I may act like a TBM again because I WANT TO at some point, and not out of a sense of duty like I did for so many angst-filled years.

[_bcspace]

Geez, I always thought the benefits of apostasy were an extra day off per week and a 10% raise.

[_Buffalo]

Geez, I always thought the benefits of apostasy were an extra day off per week and a 10% raise.