Creedal Trinity misunderstood by LDS

[_Mittens]

Wrong again gdemetz, Joseph Smith Jr wrote the Lectures of Faith way before the 1 out 9 First Visions stories was adopted way after 1835 and it taught God the Father was personage of spirit.


Lectures on Faith
Lecture Five 2. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…. They are the Father and the Son: the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fulness. The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, is a personage of tabernacle, made or fashioned like unto man, being in the form and likeness of man, or rather man was formed after his likeness and in his image. He is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father, possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name. He is called the Son because of the flesh…possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit that bears record of the Father and the Son. These three are one; or, in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things. Q & A 15. Do the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute the Godhead? They do.

Joseph Fielding Smith admitted that Joseph Smith helped prepare these lectures: "Now the Prophet did know something about these Lectures on Faith, because he helped to prepare them, and he helped also to revise these lectures before they were published ..." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 195).

These Lectures on Faith were printed in all of the early editions of the Doctrine and Covenants, but in 1921 they were completely removed and have not appeared in subsequent editions. John William Fitzgerald, who wrote his thesis at BYU, asked Joseph Fielding Smith why they were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants. One of the reasons given was that they were not complete as to their teachings regarding the Godhead. Actually, these lectures were considered complete with regard to their teachings concerning the Godhead at the time they were given. On page 58 of the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants the following question and answer appear: "Q. Does the foregoing account of the Godhead lay a sure foundation for the exercise of faith in him unto life and salvation? A. It does."


http://eom.BYU.edu/index.php/Lectures_on_Faith

[_gdemetz]

Mittens, that is old news, and that has been explained so many times already! The correct interpretation as Joseph Himself taught is that God is a personage of spirit just as we are, and that He also has a tangible body just as we do. If fact, we were "created" in His exact image!

Also, as I have stated before, the difference concerning the true Biblical doctrine of the "Godhead" (three beings that we worship as one God) and the false man made doctrine of the trinity is the fact that the false doctrine of the trinity teaches that they are all one being!

[_Mittens]

gdemetz , wrong again, God the Father a personage of Spirit, juxtopse Jesus personage of tabernacle . Sorry but you been checkmated

Jesus would have been identified as personage of spirit too then with your reasoning

[_gdemetz]

That is really dumb! Have you seen Heavenly Father?!? No, you have perhaps only been inspired by... to attack here! Joseph saw and testified that Heavenly Father as well as Christ were tangible beings! He also Tesitfied that the Holy Spirit was a personage of Spirit. Imagine that! No wonder He is called the Holy Ghost! I bet some of the evangelicals here could comprehend that!

[_Mittens]

So you believe what a convicted glass looker says with no witnesses, remember what the Bible says about needing two or three witnesses

[_subgenius]

Mittens, what appears to be beyond your capacity to understand is the fact THAT WHEN Mormons STATE "ONE GOD" WE ARE REFERRING TO THE GODHEAD (WHICH CONSISTS OF THREE DISTINCT GODS) WHICH WE WORSHIP AS ONE GOD!!! WHY IS IT THAT YOU SEEM TO DUMB (FOR A LACK OF A BETTER WORD) TO UNDERSTAND THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that what I said :question: However that is not what Joseph Smith Jr taught before he formulated his Polythiestic error

Mittens,
why do you give so much authority to the Nicene Creed?

[_LittleNipper]

And understood in context! 4) We who profess Christ should not concern ourselves with only our needs/wants, but be considerate of others. This is the way Jesus behaved. Christ being God didn't worry about attaining godhood. Christ set His supreme control aside and became a mere human --- though perfect in every way. He listened to every instruction from the Father, even to give up His life on the cross. Because of this the Father and Holy Spirt now exalt Him back to the highest position...

Christ did not have to worry about "attaining" it, did He?
"Perfect" in every way but you claim He was "frail" and needed "maturing"

you still have not provided the justification for your "frailties" and "maturing" and that "God" ever revealed unto Him that which He did not already know.

Jesus as a human could suffer, experience pain, be sad, need assistance, and feel the loss of acceptance... I believe Jesus knew that He would achieve what He needed to. Jesus did not always know when events would occure, but that they would happen eventually. Jesus certainly came to know what it was like to be forsaken by the father for a moment in time....

[_Albion]

Little Nipper, clearly the scripture I quoted earlier (Luke 2:40) allows for a maturing process in Jesus the human. While there is little additional, specific information in scripture, I cannot imagine Jesus knowing the full import of his mission with all its ramifications, including an appalling death, at an age when he would not be able to handle it properly, fully human as he was. That he was an exceptional child is clear from the story of him conversing with the elders in the temple ( a learning experience for both him and them)but just as he had to learn the customs, scriptures and history of his people so I believe the Spirit nurtured him to a full understanding of his purpose.

[_LittleNipper]

Little Nipper, clearly the scripture I quoted earlier (Luke 2:40) allows for a maturing process in Jesus the human. While there is little additional, specific information in scripture, I cannot imagine Jesus knowing the full import of his mission with all its ramifications, including an appalling death, at an age when he would not be able to handle it properly, fully human as he was. That he was an exceptional child is clear from the story of him conversing with the elders in the temple ( a learning experience for both him and them)but just as he had to learn the customs, scriptures and history of his people so I believe the Spirit nurtured him to a full understanding of his purpose.

Yes, I can accept this. And though Jesus would have read the entire Old Testament, it is likely he understood his eventual sacrafice much as Christians see Daniel and Revelations. As things unfold implications become more concrete... It is obvious Jesus loved his mother and His friends. He wasn't indifferent to their feelings. He had real heartbreak in the garden. I believe He realized that He was to be split from his Father and his humanity was coming to a close. This had to hurt. But I also see that as God, it was impossible for Jesus to fall down and worship satan or caste himself down or change stone into bread for the devil. This is part of a mystery Jesus may eventually reveal to His saints in heaven.

[_Mittens]

Little Nipper, clearly the scripture I quoted earlier (Luke 2:40) allows for a maturing process in Jesus the human. While there is little additional, specific information in scripture, I cannot imagine Jesus knowing the full import of his mission with all its ramifications, including an appalling death, at an age when he would not be able to handle it properly, fully human as he was. That he was an exceptional child is clear from the story of him conversing with the elders in the temple ( a learning experience for both him and them)but just as he had to learn the customs, scriptures and history of his people so I believe the Spirit nurtured him to a full understanding of his purpose.

I believe Jesus knew the details of his death, infact he said destroy this temple and in three days he said he would raise his body from the dead