Man is as intelligent as God

[_Ceeboo]

Hey W

Happy New Year to you and yours!

The last time I was in Dubai, my "moderately priced" hotel room was $456 per night.

Wow!
You get to keep the bed though, yes?




by the way: I know Dr.W in real life (2nd cousin on my mother's side) and I can verify that he has not only never been to the Middle East, he hasn't even ever been on an airplane!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Bhodi]

by the way: I know Dr.W in real life (2nd cousin on my mother's side) and I can verify that he has not only never been to the Middle East, he hasn't even ever been on an airplane!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Airplanes are overrated, though convenient.

[_DrW]

Bhodi,

I did not make any reference to the work week. I made reference to Sunday and stated that I worked seven days a week, 10 -12 hours per day while in country.

While in Oman, we were responsible for a large public works project in the Al Wusta region (recently re-designated as a Governate). Our field work was mainly in Duqm. Our Muscat offices are in a new villa just off of 18 November Street near the new airport construction site. Coming from The Wave, one turned right at the Shell station. I lived on Qurum Beach while there. Our clients there include SEZAD, be'ah and Oman Dry Dock.

And by the way, one could certainly have doubts about your local knowledge, especially when you claim that a friend lived there on $100 a month. That is patently ridiculous. And you are being offensive.

The Sunday-Thursday work week is a decided oddity, and something that would cause comment, particularly in light of the alteration to sabbath observance. As to your experience, I suspect you did what most westerners do, which is stay in the western oriented regions. This is common, most people are afraid of the Middle East. I am part Cherokee, which is nice since I am darker skinned, particularly when in the sun, and darker haired. I do not look completely Arab, but I pass as a half-Arab in most cases. I can wander, with relative impugnity, in most places where others cannot or more to the point, will not. I was also not referring to Oman, my friend lived in another country.

Since I lived in Oman and posted on this board from there for 7 months, the normal Sunday-Thursday workweek there is no longer an oddity. In any case, most folks posting on a religion oriented board would understand the differences between the Christian, Jewish and Islamic Sabbath observance.

For the record, I am not "afraid" of the Middle East. I have been living and working on and off in the Middle East (sometimes with my family) for more than 20 years. Many folks on this board know that.

I lead a team that designed and stood up the University of Petroleum and Minerals Research Institute laboratories in D'hahran, KSA. Later I co-founded a military offsets company in the UAE that turned out to be one of the parents of Mubadala.

So, perhaps now we can discontinue the pissing contest for now and get back to science and religion.

[_DrW]

Hey W

Happy New Year to you and yours!

The last time I was in Dubai, my "moderately priced" hotel room was $456 per night.

Wow!
You get to keep the bed though, yes?




by the way: I know Dr.W in real life (2nd cousin on my mother's side) and I can verify that he has not only never been to the Middle East, he hasn't even ever been on an airplane!

Peace,
Ceeboo

Happy New Year, Ceeboo.

And thanks for your highly credible verification of my statements on this thread. I greatly appreciate it.

(No, really.)

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Omg, this is so painful to watch. Why are Mopologists so pathologically dishonest?

- Doc

[_Bhodi]

Since I lived in Oman and posted on this board from there for 7 months, the normal Sunday-Thursday workweek there is no longer an oddity. In any case, most folks posting on a religion oriented board would understand the differences between the Christian, Jewish and Islamic Sabbath observance.

For the record, I am not "afraid" of the Middle East. I have been living and working on and off in the Middle East (sometimes with my family) for more than 20 years. Many folks on this board know that.

I lead a team that designed and stood up the University of Petroleum and Minerals Research Institute laboratories in D'hahran, KSA. Later I co-founded a military offsets company in the UAE that turned out to be one of the parents of Mubadala.

So, perhaps now we can discontinue the pissing contest for now and get back to science and religion.

Your comments make no financial or regional sense. Simply asking the question is not a "pissing contest". Again I am not trying to be offensive, but I am pointing out the disconnect in what you have said, and my experience. I also lived with my family, my son is fluent in Arabic. You have intermittently lived in the region, it is my life. I have studied with the Sheikhs of Al-Ahzar, sat with a fox at the edge of the fire in the Sahara, and chewed khat in Yemen. I know what the now burned out souk smelled like in Damascus, before the uprising. I am not saying that my experience is the end all of existence, or that I know everything, I do not, but I do know a little.

Many of the things you have said do not make sense based on my experience. Why would your company spend a boatload on hotel bills when apartment rentals would be so much more economical?

[_Bhodi]

Omg, this is so painful to watch. Why are Mopologists so pathologically dishonest?

- Doc

I have asked someone to verify I am not a previous Mormon apologist. If they support my claim, and you are wrong, what will you do?

[Guest]

Since we work 7 days a week, we do not really have time for housework and laundry, so we live in hotels. Also, we take shifts in country. For some periods of time more than one of us are there, and sometimes none of us are there, so it doesn't make sense to keep an apartment.

This makes less sense. Companies that operate continually in the Middle East usually rent furnished apartments for their employees, instead of hotels, because of the savings (an apartment would be well less than half of what you have said about a hotel). Also, we had a maid, for $100 a month, which was well over the standard price (we felt bad about it, but loved the convenience), so you should have easily had someone who could cook and clean for you at a reasonable price without the need for hotels.

We operate on project-based contracts. Most projects in the Middle East last for a year to 18 months. Our in-country partner(s) provide(s) local staff as needed. (You are certainly aware that every foreign company operating in Oman requires a local partner in order to do business.) Since we have projects running simultaneously in several countries, it doesn't make sense to maintain apartments in each area where we are working.

In India, for example, where we have longer term projects in which we also hold equity, we do maintain apartments.

[_Bhodi]

We operate on project-based contracts. Most projects in the Middle East last for a year to 18 months. Our in-country partner(s) provide(s) local staff as needed. (You are certainly that every foreign company operating in Oman requires a local partner in order to do business.) Since we have projects running simultaneously in several countries, it doesn't make sense to maintain apartments in each area where we are working.

In India, for example, where we have longer term projects in which we also hold equity, we do maintain apartments.

Apartment leases for 12-18 months are common. Why is your company spending twice as much, particularly when you have local support to save you money? Local support should make this both easy and economical (as well as easily offered, hospitality is part of the culture).

Again, this is bizzare.

[Guest]

Since I lived in Oman and posted on this board from there for 7 months, the normal Sunday-Thursday workweek there is no longer an oddity. In any case, most folks posting on a religion oriented board would understand the differences between the Christian, Jewish and Islamic Sabbath observance.

For the record, I am not "afraid" of the Middle East. I have been living and working on and off in the Middle East (sometimes with my family) for more than 20 years. Many folks on this board know that.

I lead a team that designed and stood up the University of Petroleum and Minerals Research Institute laboratories in D'hahran, KSA. Later I co-founded a military offsets company in the UAE that turned out to be one of the parents of Mubadala.

So, perhaps now we can discontinue the pissing contest for now and get back to science and religion.

Your comments make no financial or regional sense. Simply asking the question is not a "pissing contest". Again I am not trying to be offensive, but I am pointing out the disconnect in what you have said, and my experience. I also lived with my family, my son is fluent in Arabic. You have intermittently lived in the region, it is my life. I have studied with the Sheikhs of Al-Ahzar, sat with a fox at the edge of the fire in the Sahara, and chewed khat in Yemen. I know what the now burned out souk smelled like in Damascus, before the uprising. I am not saying that my experience is the end all of existence, or that I know everything, I do not, but I do know a little.

Many of the things you have said do not make sense based on my experience. Why would your company spend a boatload on hotel bills when apartment rentals would be so much more economical?

Bhodi,

Even though some your stated experiences in the Middle East are not common to my experience (including the smell of a burned out souk and setting with a fox at the edge of a fire in the Sahara) I have not called what you say into question.

If you have not been in business in the Middle East and have not worked there on consulting contracts, then perhaps you should consider that you do not have the experience to make reasonable comments about how this is best accomplished.

First of all, to us, $5,000 per month for a hotel is not a "boatload" of money. You have no way to judge whether $5,000 a month for a hotel makes economic sense unless you know what the trade-offs are.

In order to credibly make that statement on this issue, you would need to know what our hourly or daily charge out rates are in country, and I have the feeling that, if I told you, you would not believe that either.

Suffice it to say that we do understand the economics of our business. We negotiate rates for local living and transportation expenses separate from salary, and it makes a great deal of economic sense to pay north of $5,000 a month for a hotel room if it allows us to sustain a seven day a week work schedule week after week (which is exactly what it does).