For former Mormons who became atheists

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
Post Reply
_Lightworker
_Emeritus
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _Lightworker »

LittleNipper wrote:So, what caused the matter to come together in the first place? And where did that matter come from?


I like to think of the universe as a perpetual motion machine. Perhaps the end of time caused the beginning of time. Matter is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed as far as I know. It can only be transfered or transmuted. The secret of alchemy is to transmute matter to spirit and from spirit to matter. So, it came from spirit originally, but there really is no separation to spirit and matter, it is all energy. Love is energy. This is obvious if you are empathic. When someone's aura is filled with love (charity, compassion), it radiates a spiritual light. This spiritual light is called the Holy Ghost in Mormonism, or light of Christ depending on how technical you get. Matter came from that same energy that radiates from pure hearts, in my opinion.
Love is all there is.
_PrickKicker
_Emeritus
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _PrickKicker »

Lightworker wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:So, what caused the matter to come together in the first place? And where did that matter come from?


I like to think of the universe as a perpetual motion machine. Perhaps the end of time caused the beginning of time. Matter is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed as far as I know. It can only be transfered or transmuted. The secret of alchemy is to transmute matter to spirit and from spirit to matter. So, it came from spirit originally, but there really is no separation to spirit and matter, it is all energy. Love is energy. This is obvious if you are empathic. When someone's aura is filled with love (charity, compassion), it radiates a spiritual light. This spiritual light is called the Holy Ghost in Mormonism, or light of Christ depending on how technical you get. Matter came from that same energy that radiates from pure hearts, in my opinion.


Perhaps? <--- Theory and Philosophy, not exclusive to religion.
The end of time?<--- Time is relative.
The beginning of time?<--- Again, it is only ever the present by an individual's perspective.
Matter is energy?<--- Matter is matter, energy is energy. mater can be used to create a motivational force = energy.
Energy cannot be created? <--- Yes it can.
Energy cannot be destroyed? <--- It can be exhausted and therefore, cease to be.
The secret of alchemy is... Seriously?

Love is not energy... Love is a concept that exists in the mind of mankind.
The firing neurons and synapses of biological thought processes are the motivational force = energy.

Empathy is the consideration or understanding of another beings thoughts and feelings, if one is not ready to empathise then they will not allow their own neurons and synapses to respond.

Pfffff!

'Pure Love of Christ' 'Charity' 'compassion' is nothing but 'empathy' with a new name, the trouble comes when another religious person or atheist empathises with the poor and offers help,
The LDSs monopoly on the holy ghost and its gifts are all of a sudden under threat and then the definitions and descriptions become looser and the terms become stretched or exaggerated and then there is several words for one definition... The constant companion (Mormon Exclusive), the impressions of the Holy ghost(Visiting others) and the spirit of God, Holy spirit, spirit of the Lord, the light of Christ and so on and so on.

This is the one thing that God/Religion/Media companies/organisations and Businesses do best 'rebranding', selling the same products and twisted lies under a new name.

Bible = KJV,GN,YouTube, JST and so on and so on... all to set itself apart from the others and avoid copyrights and patents.

Matter came from that same energy?<--- Matter is Matter, it has and will always exist in one form or another, it can change and or denature (be transmuted,/transmutate.)
It is there in space...

God did not create it!
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
_Alfredo
_Emeritus
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:25 am

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _Alfredo »

subgenius wrote:...for example, if Dr. Shades is standing in the doorway it is reasonable and correct to say either "Dr Shades is in the room"
OR
"Dr Shades is NOT in the room"
Here we see that a proposition and its negation, ergo the self-contradiction, can be affirmed.

I know I already asked and no one seems to care, but this is just too silly to leave unengaged. Allow me to entertain myself at your own expense.

Can't believe you really missed this but...

"Dr Shades is in the room" and "Dr Shades is NOT in the room" are innaccurate statements.

More accurate statements might be "Half of Dr Shades is in one room." You get the point.

Now, I challenge you to provide an example that proves your point without misusing language.

Are you familiar with the pile of sand paradox (Greek Sorites paradox)?
Approach a large pile of sand
begin removing the sand one grain at a time
so, when is the "pile" no longer a "pile"?

Another failure to use accurate language. The word "pile" is intended to be used as an estimation. If you analyze with precision to prove your paradox, you're no longer using estimations and have such abandoned the proper meaning of "pile" and moved on to another question. So, again... your paradox doesn't apply.

Can't wait for your direct and point-for-point response.
_Lightworker
_Emeritus
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _Lightworker »

PrickKicker wrote: [ quote="Lightworker"]

I like to think of the universe as a perpetual motion machine. Perhaps the end of time caused the beginning of time. Matter is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed as far as I know. It can only be transfered or transmuted. The secret of alchemy is to transmute matter to Spirit and from Spirit to matter. So, it came from Spirit originally, but there really is no separation to Spirit and matter, it is all energy. Love is energy. This is obvious if you are empathic. When someone's aura is filled with love (charity, compassion), it radiates a spiritual light. This spiritual light is called the Holy Ghost in Mormonism, or light of Christ depending on how technical you get. Matter came from that same energy that radiates from pure hearts, in my opinion.

PrickKicker wrote:Perhaps? <--- Theory and Philosophy, not exclusive to religion.
The end of time?<--- Time is relative.

The beginning of time?<--- Again, it is only ever the present by an individual's perspective.


In the Unity everything is happening simultaneously, time does not exist, the whole deal is happening in an eternal now. Dallin Oaks mentions this, but this is the common experience of mystics. The future has already happened and is simply unfolding in our dimension of time and space. The future can be known, typically by communicating with spirits that are familiar with the Unity, or simply Spirit itself since it is all interconnected and one anyway. This is called a gift of the spirit in the Bible, in the east it is called a siddhi which many present themselves when the kundalini is awakened and the energy portals of the chakras are cleansed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi

It is by experiencing siddhis one is able to move beyond faith into knowledge. Eventually, everything is seen as a miracle so siddhis are not sought or coveted.

PrickKicker wrote:Matter is energy?<--- Matter is matter, energy is energy. mater can be used to create a motivational force = energy.
Energy cannot be created? <--- Yes it can.
Energy cannot be destroyed? <--- It can be exhausted and therefore, cease to be.


Prove this please. As far as I know it can be dissipated only. The big mystery is the black hole. That likely has the answer to the mystery of matter. Is energy destroyed in the black hole? I don't think so but I'm not a physicist.

PrickKicker wrote:The secret of alchemy is... Seriously?


Yes. Seriously. Transmutation however is not lead into gold, this is symbolic. Although matter can transmute into spirit, usually this involves physical healing, the disease of the body transmuting into spirit and healthy tissue being restored. Or the changing of heavy dark energy to bliss. The alchemy involves the attainment of the caduceus, for lack of a better word (it's a good symbol with alchemical meaning). This is the kundalini energy awakening and moving up the spine up to the crown chakra, which is symbolized by the wings at the top. When the crown is opened, this is the process of enlightenment, described by the Buddha as symbolically like the opening of a thousand petaled lotus, and the lifting of the veil blocking perception of ultimate reality.

Transmutation occurs when the positive snake, represented by Jesus as an example, and the negative snake, represented as Lucifer, are in perfect balance. There is no good or evil, all paradoxes are resolved. They are two snakes that are not two. This is similar to the taijitu, commonly referred to as the yin yang symbol, in Taoist philosophy. When the positive and negative aspects come together, male and female divine energies for example, power is created and change occurs, sometimes releasing demons and trauma connected to the being and darkening it from trauma in the past or poor choices. This can't be explained scientifically to my knowledge, and certainly not tested with the scientific method. This is mysticism. The negative spiritual energies, or demons, are purged as the Unity is integrated into the microcosm of the individual body/being. The Unity is like the fire of alchemy, that purges all darkness into the pure energy of love. The unity is perfect love itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini

PrickKicker wrote:
Love is not energy... Love is a concept that exists in the mind of mankind.
The firing neurons and synapses of biological thought processes are the motivational force = energy.


When a spiritually sensitive person is around a pure heart full of love and kindness a warmth or radiance in their aura is sensed. This is love energy. When a peace is sensed in nature or a sacredness in a graveyard, this is love energy at work. It is the psychic energy that permeates through things in harmony with nature and in harmony with love and balance.

This could be considered a siddhi however as not everyone is sensitive to subtle psychic energies. I think most people are though, even atheists. They just don't look beyond the physical realm for explanations of our multidimensional multiverse.

PrickKicker wrote:
Empathy is the consideration or understanding of another being's thoughts and feelings; if one is not ready to empathise then they will not allow their own neurons and synapses to respond.


I agree on your definition, though I would take it further and say empathy is actually feeling another's emotions via their aura.

PrickKicker wrote:
The LDSs monopoly on the holy ghost and its gifts are all of a sudden under threat and then the definitions and descriptions become looser and the terms become stretched or exaggerated and then there is several words for one definition... The constant companion (Mormon Exclusive), the impressions of the Holy ghost(Visiting others) and the spirit of God, Holy spirit, spirit of the Lord, the light of Christ and so on and so on.

This is the one thing that God/Religion/Media companies/organisations and Businesses do best 'rebranding', selling the same products and twisted lies under a new name.



So many semantics. I agree, that is the big problem with the concept of the Holy Ghost in Mormonism: it is not really defined very well. I like to think of it as simply the light, warmth, and bliss of divine love. It is the conscience. It is what is at the core of the human heart, the deepest spot within. But beyond that, all is Spirit so to me and my somewhat pantheistic views all could be considered a manifestation of the Holy Ghost. That's my own opinion.

PrickKicker wrote:Matter came from that same energy?<--- Matter is Matter, it has and will always exist in one form or another, it can change and or denature (be transmuted,/transmutate.)
It is there in space...

God did not create it!


To me saying God did not create it is true but not really. God is it. The problem here is the paradigm of separation, that matter, creation, us etc, are separate from God. Subject and object are one. I like to think of existence as God's dream. Just like our imaginations are not separate from us, existence is not separate from God. Again, just my own perception of it.

Where it gets really interesting is the realization that the dream world is not as separate from reality as we may have thought. The dreamscape can be inhabited by sentient beings. For example, spirits can visit in dreams and visions. Dreams being a form of energy just like our familiar atoms are composed of energy. It's just another dimension. We are multidimensional beings.

Atheists tend to look everywhere other than inside themselves for God. The subjective experience is tossed aside as meaningless. Am I wrong? The mystic looks within themselves and aligns their life with what is found there, and signs and gifts are given that effect the outside world for confirmation that knowledge has been gained. Synchronicities, telepathy, visits from the spiritual dimensions, physical healing and miracles, etc. Those who are not willing to take a good look at themselves are missing out on this knowledge.
Love is all there is.
_PrickKicker
_Emeritus
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _PrickKicker »

Energy is dependant on mass.

E=MC2

This is Theory which is proven statistically, which work hand in hand with other proven theories.

There is no such thing as an Eternal system, all systems break down.

Spirituality is nothing more than the musings of the mind/Philosophy.
All religions try and use science or truth, mingled with philosophy to try and beguile others.
Image

I guess that is why buddha is so fat?
Image
His mass represents his spiritual energy.

Image
This Priest has something to say to you... Watch Hot Fuzz.
PrickKicker: I used to be a Narrow minded, short sighted, Lying, Racist, Homophobic, Pious, Moron. But they were all behavioral traits that I had learnt through Mormonism.
_bcuzbcuz
_Emeritus
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _bcuzbcuz »

subgenius wrote:
Are you familiar with the pile of sand paradox (Greek Sorites paradox)?
Approach a large pile of sand
begin removing the sand one grain at a time
so, when is the "pile" no longer a "pile"?


Equally true is: if you have two piles of sand and you combine them, you only have one pile of sand.

Pile is hardly a word worth spending piles of energy on. Especially if you have piles.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _Dr. Shades »

SteelHead wrote:Shades you ate playing sub's game wrong. Ask him to prove things.

Hmm, you're probably right.

The supernatural is harder to prove and hence disprove than even proving another "mind". Sub likes to play the you can't prove that game. Just play it back at him.

Okay.

Subgenius, please prove that being a member of Mormonism is objectively "better" than not being a member of it.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _subgenius »

Dr. Shades wrote:Subgenius, please prove that being a member of Mormonism is objectively "better" than not being a member of it.

I did not make that claim did I ? why should that burden be upon me? its your claim - you prove it!

and furthermore...why the specificity of "objectively" ?
A materialistic qualifier being imposed on a non-materialistic subject seems rather....odd.
Nevertheless, i am sure you have your reasons, and if you can justify why it must be "objectively better" then perhaps I will entertain you with "proof".
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_subgenius
_Emeritus
Posts: 13326
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _subgenius »

Alfredo wrote:I know I already asked and no one seems to care, but this is just too silly to leave unengaged. Allow me to entertain myself at your own expense.

Can't believe you really missed this but...

"Dr Shades is in the room" and "Dr Shades is NOT in the room" are innaccurate statements.

More accurate statements might be "Half of Dr Shades is in one room." You get the point.

actually you completely missed the point, and offered something up that is basically nonsense. The true "out" for that contradiction is that Shades is in neither room, he is simply in the doorway. <-----that is what you getting served feels like
(hey, at least you were entertaining yourself, the rest of us....not so much).

But that does not negate the example i offered...both statement examples are accurate and contrary. Their ambiguity in comparison to a statement about being in the doorway does not render them inaccurate.
Think about a blue shirt....you say it is a blue shirt and i say it is a Brandeis blue shirt...both of us are, in fact, correct and accurate.

Alfredo wrote:Now, I challenge you to provide an example that proves your point without misusing language.

already done, just because you can not grasp it does not mean it was not provided...its a basic example as well, available to most college freshman.

Alfredo wrote:Another failure to use accurate language. The word "pile" is intended to be used as an estimation. If you analyze with precision to prove your paradox, you're no longer using estimations and have such abandoned the proper meaning of "pile" and moved on to another question. So, again... your paradox doesn't apply.

Can't wait for your direct and point-for-point response.

congratulations, your post actually made me laugh. So, what of a pile is an "estimation"??? The same is true, at what point, then, do you "estimate" that it is not a pile anymore?
Besides, pile is not used an estimation, an estimation of what? do you actually have access to an online dictionary or are you in one of those countries?
A pile is simply a "quantity" of anything heaped together, massed together, put upon each other, etc........what the estimation??

you got a weird sense of what is "entertaining"

Join me on your next post as the saga continues with:
Image
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Mktavish
_Emeritus
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:23 am

Re: For former Mormons who became atheists

Post by _Mktavish »

...
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply