Yes--this link is an excellent example of pious fraud, i.e. Lying for the Lord. (I'm assuming you've actually read this, but I can't be certain because you never seem to have the slightest idea what the stuff you cut-and-paste really says.)
This is untrue. You cannot get it. No one is saved by religious affiliation. They all exhibit various error where they take their eyes off a relationship with Christ the Savior and focus on works. Religion is what man adds to God's requirement. The only way an individual is truly saved is through a PERSONAL relationship with God, through Christ, in the comfort of the Holy Spirit. You would not understand this because you view only from the standpoint of an unrepentant, unredeemed, lost individual cloaked in his own rationalization. I am a Christian and you obviously are not. Everything you say and how you say it is of your own value, interpretation, and for the display of your whit... I do not care what others think of me. I am concerned that they have an opportunity to see what God through the Bible has to say, even if that brings ridicule towards me. The truth of the matter is that without Christ, man is nothing but a poop machine ---- in and out. Man then dies being consumed, and becomes the poop of something else. You actually demonstrate this point very well. Thanks.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joshua 15:1-63 The Land Given to the Tribe of Judah (as assigned by sacred lot): Judah’s southern boundary began at the northern border of Edom, crossed the wilderness of Zin, and ended at the northern edge of the Negeb. Began at the south bay of the Dead Sea, run along the road going south of Mount Akrabbim, on into the wilderness of Zin to Hezron (south of Kadesh-barnea), and then up through Karka and Azmon, until finally reaching the brook of Egypt, following that to the Mediterranean Sea.
The eastern boundary extended along the Dead Sea to the mouth of the Jordan River.
The northern boundary began at the bay where the Jordan River empties into the Salt Sea, crossed to Beth-hoglah, then proceeded north of Beth-arabah to the stone of Bohan (son of Reuben). From that point it went through the valley of Achor to Debir, where it turned northwest toward Gilgal, opposite the slopes of Adummim on the south side of the valley. From there the border extended to the springs at En-shemesh and on to En-rogel. The boundary then passed through the valley of Hinnom, along the southern shoulder of Jebus (where the city of Jerusalem is located), then west to the top of the mountain above the valley of Hinnom, and on up to the northern end of the valley of Rephaim. From there the border continued from the top of the mountain to the spring of Nephtoah, and from there to the cities of Mount Ephron before it turned northward to circle around Baalah (also known as Kiriath-jearim). Then the border circled west of Baalah to Mount Seir, passed along to the town of Chesalon on the northern shoulder of Mount Jearim, and went down to Beth-shemesh. Turning northwest again, the boundary line proceeded past the south of Timnah to the shoulder of the hill north of Ekron, where it bent to the left, passing south of Shikkeron and Mount Baalah. Turning again to the north, it passed Jabneel and ended at the Mediterranean Sea. The western border was along the shore of the Mediterranean.
The Lord instructed Joshua to assign some of Judah’s territory to Caleb (son of Jephunneh), so he was given the city of Arba (also called Hebron), which had been named after Anak’s father. Caleb drove out the descendants of the three sons of Anak: Talmai, Sheshai, and Ahiman. Then he fought against the people living in the city of Debir (formerly called Kiriath-sepher). Caleb said that he would give his daughter Achsah to be the wife of anyone who would go and capture Kiriath-sepher. Othniel (son of Kenaz), Caleb’s nephew, was the one who conquered it, so Achsah became Othniel’s wife. As she was leaving with Othniel, she urged him to ask her father for an additional field as a wedding present. She got off her donkey to speak to Caleb and was also given upper and lower springs.
This was the assignment of land to the tribe of Judah: The cities of Judah which were situated along the borders of Edom in the Negeb (Kabzeel, Eder, Jagur, Kinah, Dimonah, Adadah, Kedesh, Hazor, Ithnan, Ziph, Telem, Bealoth, Hazor-hadattah, Kerioth-hezron [or, Hazor], Amam, Shema, Moladah, Hazar-gaddah, Heshmon, Beth-pelet, Hazar-shual, Beer-sheba, Biziothiah, Baalah, Iim, Ezem, Eltolad, Chesil, Hormah, Ziklag, Madmannah, Sansannah, Lebaoth, Shilhim, Ain, and Rimmon) --- being 21 cities with their surrounding villages. The following cities situated in the lowlands were also given to Judah: Eshtaol, Zorah, Ashnah, Zanoah, En-gannim, Tappuah, Enam, Jarmuth, Adullam, Socoh, Azekah, Shaaraim, Adithaim, Gederah, and Gederothaim. In all, there were 14 of these cities with their surrounding villages. Judah also inherited 25 other cities with their villages: Zenan, Hadashah, Migdal-gad, Dilean, Mizpeh, Joktheel, Lachish, Bozkath, Eglon, Cabbon, Lahmam, Chitlish, Gederoth, Beth-dagon, Naamah, Makkedah, Libnah, Ether, Ashan, Iphtah, Ashnah, Nezib, Keilah, Achzib, and Mareshah. The territory of the tribe of Judah also included all the towns and villages of Ekron. From Ekron the boundary extended to the Mediterranean and included the cities along the borders of Ashdod being included with their nearby villages, and Gaza with its villages as far as the brook of Egypt; also the entire Mediterranean coast from the mouth of the brook of Egypt on the south to Tyre on the north. Judah also received these 44 cities in the hill country with their surrounding villages: Shamir, Jattir, Socoh, Dannah, Kiriath-sannah (or Debir), Anab, Eshtemoh, Anim, Goshen, Holon, Giloh, Arab, Dumah, Eshan, Janim, Beth-tappuah, Aphekah, Humtah, Kiriath-arba (or, Hebron), Zior, Maon, Carmel, Ziph, Juttah, Jezreel, Jokdeam, Zanoah, Kain, Gibeah, Timnah, Halhul, Beth-zur, Gedor, Maarath, Beth-anoth, Eltekon, Kiriath-baal (also known as Kiriath-jearim), Rabbah, Beth-arabah, Middin, Secacah, Nibshan, The City of Salt, and En-gedi.
The tribe of Judah could not drive out the Jebusites who lived in the city of Jerusalem, so the Jebusites live there among the people of Judah to the day of this record.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And the lot for the tribe of the sons of Judah, for their families, is unto the border of Edom; the wilderness of Zin southward, at the extremity of the south;
2 and to them the south border is at the extremity of the salt sea, from the bay which is looking southward;
3 and it hath gone out unto the south to Maaleh-Akrabbim, and passed over to Zin, and gone up on the south to Kadesh-Barnea, and passed over [to] Hezron, and gone up to Adar, and turned round to Karkaa,
4 and passed over [to] Azmon, and gone out [at] the brook of Egypt, and the outgoings of the border have been at the sea; this is to you the south border.
5 And the east border [is] the salt sea, unto the extremity of the Jordan, and the border at the north quarter [is] from the bay of the sea, at the extremity of the Jordan;
6 and the border hath gone up [to] Beth-Hoglah, and passed over on the north of Beth-Arabah, and the border hath gone up [to] the stone of Bohan son of Reuben:
7 and the border hath gone up towards Debir from the valley of Achor, and northward looking unto Gilgal, which [is] over-against the ascent of Adummim, which [is] on the south of the brook, and the border hath passed over unto the waters of En-Shemesh, and its outgoings have been unto En-Rogel;
8 and the border hath gone up the valley of the son of Hinnom, unto the side of the Jebusite on the south (it [is] Jerusalem), and the border hath gone up unto the top of the hill-country which [is] on the front of the valley of Hinnom westward, which [is] in the extremity of the valley of the Rephaim northward;
9 and the border hath been marked out, from the top of the hill-country unto the fountain of the waters of Nephtoah, and hath gone out unto the cities of mount Ephron, and the border hath been marked out [to] Baalah, (it [is] Kirjath-Jearim);
10 and the border hath gone round from Baalah westward, unto mount Seir, and passed over unto the side of mount Jearim (it [is] Chesalon), on the north, and gone down [to] Beth-Shemesh, and passed over to Timnah;
11 and the border hath gone out unto the side of Ekron northward, and the border hath been marked out [to] Shicron, and hath passed over to mount Baalah, and gone out [to] Jabneel; and the outgoings of the border have been at the sea.
12 And the west border [is] to the great sea, and [its] border; this [is] the border of the sons of Judah round about for their families.
13 And to Caleb son of Jephunneh hath he given a portion in the midst of the sons of Judah, according to the command of Jehovah to Joshua, [even] the city of Arba, father of Anak -- it [is] Hebron.
14 And Caleb is dispossessing thence the three sons of Anak, Sheshai, and Ahiman, and Talmai, children of Anak,
15 and he goeth up thence unto the inhabitants of Debir; and the name of Debir formerly is Kirjath-Sepher.
16 And Caleb saith, `He who smiteth Kirjath-Sephar, and hath captured it -- I have given to him Achsah my daughter for a wife.'
17 And Othniel son of Kenaz, brother of Caleb, doth capture it, and he giveth to him Achsah his daughter for a wife.
18 And it cometh to pass, in her coming in, that she persuadeth him to ask from her father a field, and she lighteth from off the ass, and Caleb saith to her, `What -- to thee?'
19 And she saith, `Give to me a blessing; when the land of the south thou hast given me, then thou hast given to me springs of waters;' and he giveth to her the upper springs and the lower springs.
20 This [is] the inheritance of the tribe of the sons of Judah, for their families.
21 And the cities at the extremity of the tribe of the sons of Judah are unto the border of Edom in the south, Kabzeel, and Eder, and Jagur,
22 and Kinah, and Dimonah, and Adadah,
23 and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Ithnan,
24 Ziph, and Telem, and Bealoth,
25 and Hazor, Hadattah, and Kerioth, Hezron, (it [is] Hazor,)
26 Amam, and Shema, and Moladah,
27 and Hazar-Gaddah, and Heshmon, and Beth-Palet,
28 and Hazar-Shual, and Beer-Sheba, and Bizjothjah,
29 Baalah, and Iim, and Azem,
30 And Eltolad, and Chesil, and Hormah,
31 and Ziklag, and Madmannah, and Sansannah,
32 and Lebaoth, and Shilhim, and Ain, and Rimmon; all the cities [are] twenty and nine, and their villages.
33 In the low country: Eshtaol, and Zoreah, and Ashnah,
34 and Zanoah, and En-Gannim, Tappuah, and Enam,
35 Jarmuth, and Adullam, Socoh, and Azekah,
36 and Sharaim, and Adithaim, and Gederah, and Gederothaim; fourteen cities and their villages.
37 Zenan, and Hadashah, and Migdal-Gad,
38 and Dilean, and Mizpeh, and Joktheel,
39 Lachish, and Bozkath, and Eglon,
40 and Cabbon, and Lahmam, and Kithlish,
41 and Gederoth, Beth-Dagon, and Naamah, and Makkedah; sixteen cities and their villages.
42 Libnah, and Ether, and Ashan,
43 and Jiphtah, and Ashnah, and Nezib,
44 and Keilah, and Achzib, and Mareshah; nine cities and their villages.
45 Ekron and its towns and its villages,
46 from Ekron and westward, all that [are] by the side of Ashdod, and their villages.
47 Ashdod, its towns and its villages, Gaza, its towns and its villages, unto the brook of Egypt, and the great sea, and [its] border.
48 And in the hill-country: Shamir, and Jattir, and Socoh,
49 and Dannah, and Kirjath-Sannah (it [is] Debir)
50 and Anab, and Eshtemoh, and Anim,
51 and Goshen, and Holon, and Giloh; eleven cities and their villages.
52 Arab, and Dumah, and Eshean,
53 and Janum, and Beth-Tappuah, and Aphekah,
54 and Humtah, and Kirjath-Arba (it [is] Hebron), and Zior; nine cities and their villages.
55 Maon, Carmel, and Ziph, and Juttah,
56 and Jezreel, and Jokdeam, and Zanoah,
57 Cain, Gibeah, and Timnah; ten cities and their villages.
58 Halhul, Beth-Zur, and Gedor,
59 and Maarath, and Beth-Anoth, and Eltekon; six cities and their villages.
60 Kirjath-Baal (it [is] Kirjath-Jearim), and Rabbah; two cities and their villages.
61 In the wilderness: Beth-Arabah, Middin, and Secacah,
62 and Nibshan, and the city of Salt, and En-Gedi; six cities and their villages.
63 As to the Jebusites, inhabitants of Jerusalem, the sons of Judah have not been able to dispossess them, and the Jebusite dwelleth with the sons of Judah in Jerusalem unto this day.
LittleNipper wrote:This is untrue. You cannot get it. No one is saved by religious affiliation. They all exhibit various error where they take their eyes off a relationship with...blah...blah...blah...
Nipper, do you actually bother to read any of the links you've cut and pasted?
I ask because the articles you link to say some very unusual things...
The pope is the anti-christ
The Earth is the center of the universe
faith in Jesus alone will change homosexuals into heterosexuals
Good people go to hell, but Xians go to heaven
Chinese ideograms prove the Biblical account of the Great Flood
Catholics believe Mary is a fourth member of the Trinity
All churches (except yours) are Satanic
Jesus rode dinosaurs
Those who practice witchcraft should be killed
Everyone who refuses to believe as you do is evil
Martin Luther's antisemitism was ordained of god
Nipper, do you actually believe these things?
Or are they examples of pious fraud, i.e. Lying for the Lord?
That's the question I'm trying to ask, but every time time I ask it you change the subject, or you hide behind a three thousand word wall-of-text.
Nipper, do you really believe those who practice witchcraft should be killed?
LittleNipper wrote:The only way an individual is truly saved is through a PERSONAL relationship with God, through Christ, in the comfort of the Holy Spirit.
That sounds great. Would you please show me where you A) prove there is a god, and B) it's the ancient war god of the tribal Hebrews?
Actually, this is a good example of how many Xians misrepresent matters of faith as empirical facts. In other words, this is probably the most typical example of pious fraud, i.e. Lying for the Lord.
LittleNipper wrote:You would not understand this because you view only from the standpoint of an unrepentant, unredeemed, lost individual cloaked in his own rationalization.
Yes--another example of how Xians misrepresent matters of faith as empirical facts.
LittleNipper wrote:I am a Christian and you obviously are not.Everything you say and how you say it is of your own value, interpretation, and for the display of your whit... I do not care what others think of me. I am concerned that they have an opportunity to see what God through the Bible has to say, even if that brings ridicule towards me.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself, Nipper. That has nothing to do with why you're ridiculed and you know it.
LittleNipper wrote:The truth of the matter is that without Christ, man is nothing but a poop machine ---- in and out. Man then dies being consumed, and becomes the poop of something else. You actually demonstrate this point very well. Thanks.
Actually no--I'm not the author of the article. The real author is Danielle Mead Skjelver...which you would know if you had bothered to read it.
Nipper, if you don't read my links, why should I read yours?
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
LittleNipper wrote:God doesn't need liars to "protect" Him.
Then how do you account for the fact that early Xians elevated pseudopigraphical scholarship to the level of an accepted and widely imitated literary trope?
It is possible to see the matter of lying with writing like Timothy in different ways. If you prefer to see lie I probably cannot obligate you to see differently. However to my view the church (or groups of Christian believers) were dependent upon earliest reports preserved by followers. Those followers felt justified in speaking from that received tradition in the name of sources of that tradition. That leaves uncertainties about accuracy I suppose but uncertainties are going to exist no matter which 1st century believer is writing what they think is the tradition.
I am not conceptually in possession of any real reason to think that Paul had more authority or was a better representative than the author of Timothy. Paul was a more aggressive and challenging thinker but that may not be the only things first century Christian records might be valued for.
The Erotic Apologist wrote: "Nipper, do you actually bother to read any of the links you've cut and pasted?
I ask because the articles you link to say some very unusual things...
1)[*]The pope is the anti-christ
2)[*]The Earth is the center of the universe
3)[*]faith in Jesus alone will change homosexuals into heterosexuals
4)[*]Good people go to hell, but Xians go to heaven
5)[*]Chinese ideograms prove the Biblical account of the Great Flood
6)[*]Catholics believe Mary is a fourth member of the Trinity
7)[*]All churches (except yours) are Satanic
8)[*]Jesus rode dinosaurs
9)[*]Those who practice witchcraft should be killed
10)[*]Everyone who refuses to believe as you do is evil
11)[*]Martin Luther's antisemitism was ordained of god[/list]
Nipper, do you actually believe these things?
Or are they examples of pious fraud, i.e. Lying for the Lord?
That's the question I'm trying to ask, but every time time I ask it you change the subject, or you hide behind a three thousand word wall-of-text.
Nipper, do you really believe those who practice witchcraft should be killed?
1) It has never been proven that St. Peter was ever in Rome (much less the 1st Pope). Christ and not the pope is the head of the Church. The fact that Jesus is the Christ, is the rock the Church is built upon. I would have to say that the office of Pope represents a type of Anti-Christ --- but not necessarily THE ANTI-CHRIST. 2) The Earth is certainly at the center of God's eye. What is more important to God? The Universe or Man? I would have to say Man. The Universe is simply a backdrop for the stage called earth. 3)Faith in Jesus will create within the homosexual the desire to flee the sin of Homosexuality. 4)Only God is good. People who think they are good are lying to themselves. Only these saved through Christ Jesus go to Heaven. 5) I don't see that this theory is any less reliable than any other. I found it intriguing. 6)Roman Catholics believe Mary is the Immaculate conception. They say the "Hail Mary" almost as often as they recite the "Our Father." I can see that they might see Mary as the "Mother of God." 7)Christian Churches are not Satanic. Christian Churches are only those that preach the Gospel. 8)I do not see that Jesus would care to ride a dinosaur. 9)Those that practice such are already condemned and headed for hell. The Lord will judge them. I certainly will not uphold witchcraft. 10)People who refuse the Messiah Jesus are condemned to hell already. 11)Martin Luther lived at a time when people were crude (I might add that we seem to be headed for a return to that). His reintroduction of the early church belief of Salvation by Grace through Faith and not of works was guided by God. However, Martin Luther was a man and made errors based upon his own bias. Everything he said was not ordained by God.
LittleNipper wrote:2) The Earth is certainly at the center of God's eye. What is more important to God? The Universe or Man? I would have to say Man. The Universe is simply a backdrop for the stage called earth.
This is without a doubt the silliest thing you have said yet! This incredibly vast Universe is simply a "backdrop for the stage" of the infinitesimally tiny (by comparison) speck that we call "earth?" You actually believe that?! This is the very epitome of human arrogance and hubris!! It's every bit as silly as the idea that our earth is the motionless center around which the rest of The Universe revolves, that Galileo was unjustly punished for disputing!
Besides that, why would any of the countless billions of sun-like stars in the observable universe be any less likely to have planets that harbor life than our own sun? And why would the inhabitants of these countless other suns be any less precious to God than we are?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
LittleNipper wrote:2) The Earth is certainly at the center of God's eye. What is more important to God? The Universe or Man? I would have to say Man. The Universe is simply a backdrop for the stage called earth.
This is without a doubt the silliest thing you have said yet! The Universe, incredibly vast Universe is simply a backdrop for the "stage" of the infinitesimally tiny (by comparison) earth?" You actually believe that?! This is the very epitome of human arrogance and hubris! It's every bit as silly as the idea that our earth is the motionless center around which the rest of The Universe revolves that Galileo was punished for disputing!
You obviously believe that intelligent life exists on other planets, in other solar systems, and galacies. I have no reason to believe this. God created the universe as a demonstration of how vast the power of GOD is to Adam and Eve. The Universe is an object lesson. It was all created by GOD to His satisfaction, honor and glory. But if one does not believe in God, then one likely will see such a notion as silly.
That notion that this tiny speck of a planet is necessarily the only abode of life only becomes even sillier if there really is a God! You actually believe that God created the entire observable universe only in order to impress us with his power and majesty? How incredibly arrogant of any of us to claim such abject nonsense! What is even worse is the implication that God created us only or mainly because he wanted to have someone whom he could impress with his power and majesty.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Gunnar wrote:That notion that this tiny speck of a planet is necessarily the only abode of life only becomes even sillier if there really is a God! You actually believe that God created the entire observable universe only in order to impress us with his power and majesty? How incredibly arrogant of any of us to claim such abject nonsense!
Actually, I believe you are VERY WRONG!" If there is only life on this one planet in the entire Universe, then the staunchest atheist would be hard pressed to not believe GOD created life, and by design placed it here to suit Himself. If life evolved itself, then it should evolve itself anywhere and at anytime. But if life exists nowhere but here ----- well, then the only possibility is GOD!