Liahona Irreantum Rabbanah deseret

[_Robert F Smith]

Robert,
Please explain away the following problems:

I don't know what you mean by "explain away" which is usually the technique of liars and cheats.

*Written by Abraham's own hand."

Not an actual problem, unless you feel that Hammurabi's claim to have personally written his code on stone is a problem. Or St. Paul's claim at the close of his letters to have written them with his own hand. Or the New Testament claim that Pilate personally wrote a sign in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin for Jesus' cross.
All such instances in writings in antiquity are either merely a manner of speaking typical of that time, or are only true of the autograph (original), all subsequent copies for the following thousands of years merely repeating what was found on the original. Does that make sense?

*A narrative of the discovery of "Egypt" after the flood of Noah with the inclusion of the waters receding off of the face of the land of Egypt despite the geological and archaeological record showing that no such event occurred in any reasonable biblical time frame. Egyptian civilization existed before, through and after, uninterrupted, through any such flood.

You are correct about the geologic and archeological record, but you missed the point commonly understood by Egyptologists that (before the Soviets built the High Dam at Aswan) the Nile flooded annually for thousands of years. The land being underwater refers to that annual inundation, which we can even fix according to the ancient Egyptian calendar. That the first king should begin to reign in the Predynastic era presents no problem, and there are even ancient stories about that which jibe with the Book of Abraham.

*Population growth after such a global cataclysm to have the population of Egypt at the time of Abraham. So account for the population growth from the flood roughly 2300 bc to the lifetime of Abraham 1940'ish bc (from 2 people to roughly 2 to 4 million people depending on the study in 300 or so years).

I don't put the Great Deluge of Noah in 2300 BC, and can't believe that you do. If so, why so late? Moreover, I only accept a regional flood at a much earlier date. Abraham doesn't come along immediately after Noah in any case.

*The inclusion of numerous anachronism, which are generally indicative of fake historical narratives. Pharaoh, Egypt, Ur of Chaldeans, Potiphers Hill. Said anachronism are consistent with Joseph's inclusion of anachronisms in the Book of Mormon.

You must al least find actual anachronisms, rather than fake ones, because fake anachronisms lead to the impression of fake narratives (false premises = false conclusions). This applies to the Book of Mormon every bit as much as it does to the Book of Abraham. You are right about that. However, none of your supposed anachronisms here are legitimate.

[_Robert F Smith]

In a real discussion there is real give & take. Comments are made and responded to. By both sides. Both parties are sincere. You don't understand this at all, and make a mockery of real discussion.

In your false version of what has happened on this thread, you declare yourself a full participant in the conversation, the innocent party as it were. In fact, anyone reading this thread can see that you did not respond to my detailed, scholarly comments -- probably because you are incapable of doing so, and are fearful of the consequences of coming to grips with Egyptological reality.

People like you who are content to bear false witness are not likely to find others willing to carry on a discussion with someone who will not play by the rules. As an example, you deliberately and falsely state that I did not comment on fac. 3, and you never responded to my comments on fac. 3. Your fear to engage in a real discussion is palpable.

For a supposed academic you use a lot of accusatory language and personal attacks. Everyone that disagrees with you "fears to engage in a real discussion".

Hi Kittens & Jesus,
You might want to go over this whole thread, examining my comments and the article I wrote, then seeing whether Themis actually engaged in a sincere discussion with me. I feel that, once you see his pattern of non-response, you will understand what I have had to deal with. To call it dishonest on his part, I think, is charitable.
As for being "a supposed academic," I'm not sure what that means. Did I make such a claim?

[_Bazooka]

I don't put the Great Deluge of Noah in 2300 BC, and can't believe that you do. If so, why so late? Moreover, I only accept a regional flood at a much earlier date. Abraham doesn't come along immediately after Noah in any case.

But the Church does, officially.
And the Church teaches explicitly that the flood was global.
(see the separate thread on the subject which contains quotes and links showing the Church's position).

You seem to be taking an apostate stance on the flood to make it fit the evidence.

The question you put to Steelhead about dating the flood etc should be asked of the Church.
Why does the Church date it to 2,344 BC?
Why does the Church portray it as a literal worldwide flood killing everyone barring 8 people?

[_Robert F Smith]

I don't put the Great Deluge of Noah in 2300 BC, and can't believe that you do. If so, why so late? Moreover, I only accept a regional flood at a much earlier date. Abraham doesn't come along immediately after Noah in any case.

But the Church does, officially.
And the Church teaches explicitly that the flood was global.
(see the separate thread on the subject which contains quotes and links showing the Church's position).

You seem to be taking an apostate stance on the flood to make it fit the evidence.

The question you put to Steelhead about dating the flood etc should be asked of the Church.
Why does the Church date it to 2,344 BC?
Why does the Church portray it as a literal worldwide flood killing everyone barring 8 people?

So you claim. You speak as one having authority. However, I know of no reason to give your statements here any credence whatsoever.

[_Kittens_and_Jesus]

In a real discussion there is real give & take. Comments are made and responded to. By both sides. Both parties are sincere. You don't understand this at all, and make a mockery of real discussion.

In your false version of what has happened on this thread, you declare yourself a full participant in the conversation, the innocent party as it were. In fact, anyone reading this thread can see that you did not respond to my detailed, scholarly comments -- probably because you are incapable of doing so, and are fearful of the consequences of coming to grips with Egyptological reality.

People like you who are content to bear false witness are not likely to find others willing to carry on a discussion with someone who will not play by the rules. As an example, you deliberately and falsely state that I did not comment on fac. 3, and you never responded to my comments on fac. 3. Your fear to engage in a real discussion is palpable.

For a supposed academic you use a lot of accusatory language and personal attacks. Everyone that disagrees with you "fears to engage in a real discussion".

Hi Kittens & Jesus,
You might want to go over this whole thread, examining my comments and the article I wrote, then seeing whether Themis actually engaged in a sincere discussion with me. I feel that, once you see his pattern of non-response, you will understand what I have had to deal with. To call it dishonest on his part, I think, is charitable.
As for being "a supposed academic," I'm not sure what that means. Did I make such a claim?

Are you kidding? I've been reading and rereading this thread since the day it started.

You have claimed an "academic" position this entire time and now you are claiming that you never did?

You might as well be a troll.

This is so silly.

Joseph Smith said he could translate, he couldn't.

End of story.

He didn't say, or write, or indicate that he made an "inspired" translation.

He insisted that it was literal.

[_Robert F Smith]

Are you kidding? I've been reading and rereading this thread since the day it started.

You have claimed an "academic" position this entire time and now you are claiming t5hat you never did?

You might as well be a troll.

This is so silly.

Joseph Smith said he could translate, he couldn't.

End of story.

He didn't say, or write, or indicate that he made an "inspired" translation.

He insisted that it was literal.

Dear Kittens the blasphemer (you dare to use His name in vain),
I realize now that you have not read this thread and don't intend to. As a pseudonymous sock-puppet, you are clearly not among the honest in heart.
Making false claims about me indicates this very well.

[_Bazooka]

I don't put the Great Deluge of Noah in 2300 BC, and can't believe that you do. If so, why so late? Moreover, I only accept a regional flood at a much earlier date. Abraham doesn't come along immediately after Noah in any case.

But the Church does, officially.
And the Church teaches explicitly that the flood was global.
(see the separate thread on the subject which contains quotes and links showing the Church's position).

You seem to be taking an apostate stance on the flood to make it fit the evidence.

The question you put to Steelhead about dating the flood etc should be asked of the Church.
Why does the Church date it to 2,344 BC?
Why does the Church portray it as a literal worldwide flood killing everyone barring 8 people?

So you claim. You speak as one having authority. However, I know of no reason to give your statements here any credence whatsoever.

Good grief

I speak as one that reads what the Church teaches.

Flood at Noah’s Time
See also Ark; Noah, Bible Patriarch; Rainbow
During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).

Source LDS.org

According to this
http://www.LDS.org/bc/content/shared/co ... ap-p06.pdf

Noah was born circa 3,000 BC and built the ark when he was 600 years old.

So the literal Universal, Global Flood (as the Church teaches it) happened some time between 2,000 and 3,000 BC.
(2,344 BC is the exact date given for the start of the flood in the above LDS study aid)
Less than 5,000 years ago the entire planets human (barring 8 people), and most of the animal, life was extinguished.
That's the Church speaking, not me.

[_SteelHead]

If the flood was local how did civilization move from Missouri to the Middle East? Where was the flood localized to if it inundated Egypt? I can post 100s of links to the church teaching a global flood, serving to baptize the earth by immersion. You know a global flood is official doctrine.

[_SteelHead]

To quote myself on other threads:

John Taylor
Quote:
Some people talk very philosophically about tidal waves coming along. But the questionis—How could you get a tidal wave out of the Pacific ocean, say, to cover the Sierra Nevadas? But the Bible does not tell us it was a tidal wave. It simply tells us that "all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered. Fifteen cubits upwards did the waters prevail; andthe mountains were covered." That is, the earth was immersed. It was a period of baptism. —John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 26:74-75..

Orson Pratt
Quote:
Another great change happened nearly two thousand years after the earth was made. It was baptized by water. A great flow of water come, the great deep was broken up, the windows of heaven were opened from on high, and the waters prevailed upon the face of the earth, sweeping away all wickedness and transgression-a similitude of baptism for the remission of sins. God requires the children of men to be baptized. What for? For the remission of sins. So he required our globe to be baptized by a flow of waters, and all of its sins were washed away, not one sin remaining. —Orson Pratt, (August 1, 1880) Journal of Discourses 21:323.

John Taylor
Quote:
By and by we find the people departing from the principles of truth, from the laws of the Gospel, repudiating the fear of God, grieving his Holy Spiritand incurring his displeasure. Then a flood came and the inhabitants of the world, with the exception of a very few, were swept from it, after the Gospel had been preached to all who then lived and all had had an opportunity to believe in and obey it. —John Taylor, "DESTRUCTION OF THE WICKED BY THE FLOOD, etc.," Journal of Discourses

Note the use of all in the above.

Brigham Young
Quote:
This earth, in its present condition and situation, is not a fit habitation for the sanctified; but it abides the law of its creation, has been baptized with water,will be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, and by-and-by will be prepared for the faithful to dwell upon. —Brigham Young, (June 12, 1860) Journal of Discourses 8:83.

The prophets are consistent on this. This is consistent with Joseph's teaching on the location of Eden.

Jeffery R Holland
Quote:
Two generations later the Lord was so pained by that generation “without affection” (Moses 7:33) that he opened the windows of heaven and cleansed the entire earth with water.Thus, the “everlasting decree” (Ether 2:10) was first taught that he who will not obey the Lord in righteousness will be swept from his sacred land. The lesson would be tragically retaught in dispensations yet to come. —Jeffrey R. Holland, “A Promised Land,” Ensign, Jun 1976

Bruce R McConkie
Quote:
"In the days of Noah the Lord sent a universal flood which completely immersed the whole earth and destroyed all flesh except that preserved on the ark. (Gen. 6; 7; 8; 9; Moses 7:38-45; 8; Ether 13.2.) "Noah was born to save seed of everything, when the earth was washed of its wickedness by the flood." (Teachings, p. 12) This flood was the baptism of the earth; before it occurred the land was all in one place, a condition that will again prevail during the millennial era. (D&C 133:23-24)". (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie, p. 289)

"The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon." (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.
Quote:
FLOOD WAS BAPTISM OF EARTH. Now a word as to the reason for the flood. It was the baptism of the earth, and that had to be by immersion. If the water did not cover the entire earth, then it was not baptized, for the baptism of the Lord is not pouring or sprinkling. (Smith, Joseph Fielding, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation (Salt Lake City: BookCraft, 1955), Vol.2, p.320)

from LDS.org

Moses 8
Quote:
28 The earth was corrupt before God, and it was filled with violence.

29 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its away upon the earth.

30 And God said unto Noah: The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth.

Genesis 6
Quote:
5 ¶And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Note the use of the word ALL twice in Moses 8:30 vs the similar verse on Genesis 6:7. Guess god did through Joseph have an opportunity to clarify things.

The Book of Moses
The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual, (2000), 3–27
http://LDS.org/manual/the-pearl-of-grea ... ah+baptism

Quote:
The book of Moses may be divided into two major sections: Moses 1, which relates experiences from Moses’ life that are not found in the book of Genesis, and Moses 2–8, which contains the inspired and restored account of events described in the Bible, including the Creation of the earth; the Fall of Adam and Eve; the story of Cain and Abel; the ministry, teachings, and visions of Enoch; and the story of Noah up to the time the Lord decreed the destruction of all flesh by the Flood. At this point, one must return to Genesis 6:14 for a continuation of the scriptural record.

Genesis 6–10; Moses 8
Old Testament Teacher Resource Manual, (2003), 37–39
http://LDS.org/manual/old-testament-tea ... ah+baptism

Quote:
Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote that “from Adam to Noah, like rolling crashes of thunder, each louder than the one before, evil and carnality and wickedness increased until ‘every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually’ [Moses 8:22]” (The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man [1982], 359). At the time of Noah the earth was “filled with violence” and “all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth” (Moses 8:28–29). In an act of mercy for the earth and for future generations, God told Noah: “The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence, and behold I will destroy all flesh from off the earth” (v. 30). Elder John A. Widtsoe, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught: “Latter-day Saints look upon the earth as a living organism, one which is gloriously filling ‘the measure of its creation.’ They look upon the flood as a baptism of the earth, symbolizing a cleansing of the impurities of the past, and the beginning of a new life” (Evidences and Reconciliations, arr. G. Homer Durham, 3 vols. in 1 [1960], 127).
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The scriptural account of the Flood uses language similar to that used to describe the Creation. Read Genesis 7:10, 14; 8:17, 20–21; 9:1, 3 and ask students how these verses are similar to verses about the Creation. What additional insights do the similarities between these two accounts provide regarding the purpose of the Flood? The Flood, like baptism, represented a new beginning for the earth.

See the previous references to the baptism by immersion. LDS doctrine teaches of the necessity of baptism by immersion, this has been repeatedly applied referencing the baptism of the Earth being; the whole Earth was under water, "baptized" e.g. immersed.

Genesis 6; Moses 8: Noah's Preaching
Old Testament Seminary Student Study Guide, (2002), 18–19
http://LDS.org/manual/old-testament-sem ... ah+baptism

Quote:
The scriptures speak of two separate times when the Lord would cleanse the earth of wickedness. The first was at the time of Noah (see Genesis 6) and the second will be at the Second Coming. Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:41–43, in the Pearl of Great Price, tells ways those two time periods will be like each other. The biggest difference in the two periods is that the earth was cleansed by water in the days of Noah, and at the Second Coming it will be cleansed by fire. These two events are a type of how we are cleansed by the baptism of water and the baptism of fire—the cleansing of the soul that occurs when we truly receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Genesis 6–9 tells the story of Noah and the Flood. As you read, look for reasons the Lord destroyed the wicked and why destroying them was the best possible thing He could do for the salvation of all His children. Also consider how the days of Noah might be compared to our day—the time before the earth is cleansed by fire.Moses 8 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 5:23–6:13, so you will want to read Moses 8 before reading Genesis 6:14–22. Notice that Moses 8 is the last chapter of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. For the rest of the Old Testament, all references to the Joseph Smith Translation will be in your footnotes or at the back of your Bible (beginning on p. 777)
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Moses 8; Genesis 6—Why the Lord Flooded the Earth

President John Taylor helped explain why the Lord decided to destroy all people on earth except the family of Noah. President Taylor suggested that the world was so wicked that children grew up with no choice but to be wicked. At that point where there is no chance to choose righteousness, sending innocent spirits from heaven to earth is no longer just. Consequently, the Lord destroyed all the wicked and began again with the family of Noah to raise up righteous men and women. “By taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing [give as an inheritance] their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them [making them wicked], and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness” (in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59). If God had not flooded the earth, His great plan could not be fulfilled. Read what Nephi said in 2 Nephi 26:24 about why the Lord acts as He does.

Does it qualify as doctrine yet or do you need me to provide more references of the church teaching a global flood?

DJ provided these:

Old Testament Student Manual, Genesis--2 Samuel, "Genesis 1-2---The Creation" Points to Ponder (2-19):

"The Flood and subsequent cataclysms drastically changed the topography and geography of the earth. The descendants of Noah evidently named some rivers, and perhaps other landmarks, after places they had known before the Flood. This theory would explain why rivers in Mesopotamia now bear the names of rivers originally on the American continent. It is also possible that some present river systems are remnants of the antediluvian river systems on the one great continent that existed then."

http://LDS.org/search?lang=eng&query=%22global+flood%22

"The Flood and the Tower of Babel," January 1998 Ensign

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

Back to me:

ST Genesis 6

Quote:
Chapter 6 (Moses 8:13–30)
1 And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God. And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
OT1 And it came to pass that Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God. And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of men saw that their daughters were fair; they took them wives even as they chose. And the Lord said unto Noah: The daughters of thy sons have sold themselves; for behold mine anger is kindled against the sons of men, for they will not hearken to my voice. And it came to pass that Noah prophesied, and taught the things of God, even as it was in the beginning.
3 And the Lord said unto Noah: My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he shall know that all flesh shall die; yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years; and if men do not repent, I will send in the floods upon them.
4 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him. And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch. And it came to pass that Noah called upon the children of men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words; And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and given in marriage? And our wives bare unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto them of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
OT1 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him. And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order, and commanded him that he should go forth and declare his Gospel unto the children of men, even as it was given unto Enoch. And it came to pass that Noah called upon men that they should repent; but they hearkened not unto his words; And also, after that they had heard him, they came up before him, saying: Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men? And are we not eating and drinking, and marrying and given in marriage? And our wives bare unto us children, and the same are mighty men, which are like unto them of old, men of great renown. And they hearkened not unto the words of Noah.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually. And it came to pass that Noah continued his preaching unto the people, saying: Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers did, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not this, the floods will come in upon you; nevertheless they hearkened not.
OT1 And God saw that the wickedness of man had become great in the earth; and every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually. And it came to pass that Noah continued his preaching unto the people, saying: Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers did, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not do this, the floods will come in upon you; nevertheless they hearkened not.
6 And it repented Noah, and his heart was pained that the Lord made man on the earth, and it grieved him at the heart.
OT1 And it repented Noah, and his heart was pained that the Lord had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said: I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both men and beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Noah that I have created them, and that I have made them; and he hath called upon me; for they have sought his life.
OT1 And the Lord said: I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man and beast, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Noah that I have created them, and that I have made them; and he hath called upon me; and they have sought his life.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 For Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God,
OT1 And Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generations; and Noah walked with God,
10 And also his three sons, Shem, Ham, Japheth.
OT1 And also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 But the earth was corrupt before God, it was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence; and, behold, I will destroy all flesh from off the earth.
14 Make thee therefore an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and thou shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
OT1 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shall thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And the length of the ark thou shalt make three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 And windows shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; lower, second, and third chambers shalt thou make in it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, will bring in a flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; every thing that liveth on the earth shall die.
OT1 And, behold, I, even I, do bring in a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein shall be the breath of life, from under heaven every thing that liveth on the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; even as I have sworn unto thy father Enoch, that a remnant16 of thy posterity should come all nations. And thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
OT1 But with thee will I establish my covenant; even as I have sworn unto thy father Enoch that a remnant of thy posterity should be preserved among all nations which shall come and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every kind shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every kind shalt thou take into the ark to keep alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather fruit of every kind unto thee in the ark; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him.
OT1 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, even so. Amen.

Notice the multiple additions of the word ALL. I can keep going, I can provide a deluge of authoritative Mormon teachings supporting a global flood.

DrW provided the following reference:

Jeffrey Holland in the Ensign in 1976:

Quote:
Holy scripture records that “after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.” (Ether 13:2.)

Such a special place needed now to be kept apart from other regions, free from the indiscriminate traveler as well as the soldier of fortune.

To guarantee such sanctity the very surface of the earth was rent. In response to God’s decree, the great continents separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them.

The promised place was set apart. Without habitation it waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes.

There are hundreds more..... Please provided rational as to why a literal, global flood is not official doctrine, and how the narrative of the Book of Abraham functions without a global flood. Can you also supply something besides for a naked assertions as to why the anachronisms I provided "aren't".

Oh one more thing:

Josiah Quincy, the famous mayor of Boston, met Joseph Smith and was shown the papyrus. Quincy stated, "Some parchments inscribed with hieroglyphics were then offered us. They were preserved under glass and handled with great respect. "
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`That is the handwriting of Abraham, the father of the Faithful,’ said the prophet."

See Josiah Quincy, Figures of the Past, 3rd. ed. Boston: Roberts Brothers, 1883.

This...was written by the hand of Abraham and means so and so. If anyone denies it, let him prove the contrary. I say it.

Said by Joseph Smith to Charles Francis Adams
From:
"Charles Francis Adams Visits the Mormons in 1844," Proceedings of the Massachusetts Historical Society 68 (1952); also Quest for the Gold Plates: Thomas Stuart Ferguson's Archeological Search for The Book of Mormon, by Stan Larson, p. 95. To read Adams's relevant journal entries for this visit, see Charles Francis Adams Journal Excerpt on ZCL's Historical Document Index

Did Joseph Smith believe and teach that the papyri in his possession were literally produced by Abraham?

[_Themis]

In a real discussion there is real give & take. Comments are made and responded to. By both sides. Both parties are sincere. You don't understand this at all, and make a mockery of real discussion.

I commented on your article, and even specifically about Chiasmus. You never respond with discussion about it. No give and take from you. I would certainly have been willingly to read and respond why I may be wrong, but all I get is one word responses like nonsense.

In your false version of what has happened on this thread, you declare yourself a full participant in the conversation, the innocent party as it were. In fact, anyone reading this thread can see that you did not respond to my detailed, scholarly comments -- probably because you are incapable of doing so, and are fearful of the consequences of coming to grips with Egyptological reality.

Is that why you have pretended like no one has asked you about fac 3 and what Egyptology have said about it. Where in this thread did you actually respond. If you are so right about me you should easily be able to show us where.

People like you who are content to bear false witness are not likely to find others willing to carry on a discussion with someone who will not play by the rules. As an example, you deliberately and falsely state that I did not comment on fac. 3, and you never responded to my comments on fac. 3. Your fear to engage in a real discussion is palpable.

Actually I said you never commented on fac 3 issues that have been raised. I have more then once said you mentioned fac 3, but only about an issue no one is arguing against. What kind of discussion are we to have about something I already said I agree with you, but it was not relevant to the problems of fac 3. I don't know anyone who understands these issues, who thinks only Egyptians lived in Egypt, and only Egyptians spoke and used the Egyptian languages or borrowed religious symbols or practices.