The church's official doctrine is that it was literal, and for good reason.
It is not the Church's official position that the flood must be literal. Steelhead has some quotes from early leaders, an Ensign article by Donald Parry, Mormon Doctrine, JoD, manuals, blah blah blah. I don't have the patience to keep responding to those people who keep quotemining.
You're joking, right?
From the current Seminary student manual "Old Testament".
President John Taylor helped explain why the Lord decided to destroy all people on earth except the family of Noah. President Taylor suggested that the world was so wicked that children grew up with no choice but to be wicked. At that point where there is no chance to choose righteousness, sending innocent spirits from heaven to earth is no longer just. Consequently, the Lord destroyed all the wicked and began again with the family of Noah to raise up righteous men and women. “By taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing [give as an inheritance] their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them [making them wicked], and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness” (in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59). If God had not flooded the earth, His great plan could not be fulfilled. Read what Nephi said in 2 Nephi 26:24 about why the Lord acts as He does.
Give me one official Church source that shows your claim that it teaches (or even accepts) anything other than the official stance that the flood; literally happened; literally covered the whole globe; and did so within the last 6,000 years.
As for "quote mining", take your pick...
Flood at Noah’s Time See also Ark; Noah, Bible Patriarch; Rainbow During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).
God will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh: Gen. 6:17; ( Moses 7:34, 43, 50–52; Moses 8:17, 30; ) The waters of the flood were upon the earth: Gen. 7:10; God set a bow in the cloud as a token of the covenant: Gen. 9:9–17; After the waters had receded, the land of America became a choice land: Ether 13:2; The wicked shall perish in the flood: Moses 7:38;Moses 8:24;
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
I think it is funny we have believers going to incredible lengths to defend scripture, and the prophets, who then don't believe what the scripture says, nor what the prophets taught.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:I think it is funny we have believers going to incredible lengths to defend scripture, and the prophets, who then don't believe what the scripture says, nor what the prophets taught.
In 2005, at Conference, from the pulpit, in his official capacity as the Prophet and President of the Church, Gordon B Hinckley, said this:
Now, I do not say, and I repeat emphatically that I do not say or infer, that what has happened is the punishment of the Lord. Many good people, including some of our faithful Latter-day Saints, are among those who have suffered. Having said this, I do not hesitate to say that this old world is no stranger to calamities and catastrophes. Those of us who read and believe the scriptures are aware of the warnings of prophets concerning catastrophes that have come to pass and are yet to come to pass.
There was the great Flood, when waters covered the earth and when, as Peter says, only “eight souls were saved” (1 Pet. 3:20).
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:Give me one official Church source that shows your claim that it teaches (or even accepts) anything other than the official stance that the flood; literally happened; literally covered the whole globe; and did so within the last 6,000 years.
Bumpety....
Is not today much like Noah’s day when the population of the earth was wiped out in the flood and but eight righteous souls were spared? Some doubt that there was a flood, but by modern revelation we know that it did take place. By modern revelation we know that for more than a century, Noah pleaded with the people to repent, but in their willful stubbornness they would not listen. —Mark E. Petersen, “Follow the Prophets,” Ensign, Nov 1981, 64
*awkward*
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
From the current Seminary student manual "Old Testament".
President John Taylor helped explain why the Lord decided to destroy all people on earth except the family of Noah. President Taylor suggested that the world was so wicked that children grew up with no choice but to be wicked. At that point where there is no chance to choose righteousness, sending innocent spirits from heaven to earth is no longer just. Consequently, the Lord destroyed all the wicked and began again with the family of Noah to raise up righteous men and women. “By taking away their earthly existence he prevented them from entailing [give as an inheritance] their sins upon their posterity and degenerating them [making them wicked], and also prevented them from committing further acts of wickedness” (in Journal of Discourses, 19:158–59). If God had not flooded the earth, His great plan could not be fulfilled. Read what Nephi said in 2 Nephi 26:24 about why the Lord acts as He does.
You know that CES manuals are continually updated? Stephen E. Robinson said that the New Testament Institute manual is a piece of junk. CES is run by fundamentalists right now.
As for "quote mining", take your pick...
Flood at Noah’s Time See also Ark; Noah, Bible Patriarch; Rainbow During Noah’s time the earth was completely covered with water. This was the baptism of the earth and symbolized a cleansing (1 Pet. 3:20–21).
God will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh: Gen. 6:17; ( Moses 7:34, 43, 50–52; Moses 8:17, 30; ) The waters of the flood were upon the earth: Gen. 7:10; God set a bow in the cloud as a token of the covenant: Gen. 9:9–17; After the waters had receded, the land of America became a choice land: Ether 13:2; The wicked shall perish in the flood: Moses 7:38;Moses 8:24;
Did you miss this disclaimer in the Bible dictionary?
This dictionary is provided to help your study of the scriptures and is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is so hard to believe because it is so hard to obey." - Soren Kierkegaard
Bazooka wrote: In 2005, at Conference, from the pulpit, in his official capacity as the Prophet and President of the Church, Gordon B Hinckley, said this:
Now, I do not say, and I repeat emphatically that I do not say or infer, that what has happened is the punishment of the Lord. Many good people, including some of our faithful Latter-day Saints, are among those who have suffered. Having said this, I do not hesitate to say that this old world is no stranger to calamities and catastrophes. Those of us who read and believe the scriptures are aware of the warnings of prophets concerning catastrophes that have come to pass and are yet to come to pass.
There was the great Flood, when waters covered the earth and when, as Peter says, only “eight souls were saved” (1 Pet. 3:20).
Are you aware that that is a talk to get people to prepare for emergencies? That is what prophets/scriptures are for. That was not a scientific statement. I am all for following the prophet, but you are reading talks the wrong way.
"It is so hard to believe because it is so hard to obey." - Soren Kierkegaard
Nelson Chung wrote:You know that CES manuals are continually updated? Stephen E. Robinson said that the New Testament Institute manual is a piece of junk. CES is run by fundamentalists right now.
I notice you haven't provided the actual quote from Dr Stephen E. Robinson, nor stated his credential for being an "official Church source" for declaring the Church's position on the literal nature of the flood.
Did you miss this disclaimer in the Bible dictionary?
This dictionary is provided to help your study of the scriptures and is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth.
How does the disclaimer which says the Bible Dictionary (as opposed to the actual scriptures) "is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth" help your claim that "It is not the Church's official position that the flood must be literal."
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Nelson Chung wrote:Are you aware that that is a talk to get people to prepare for emergencies? That is what prophets/scriptures are for. That was not a scientific statement. I am all for following the prophet, but you are reading talks the wrong way.
Got it, so when the Prophet got up at Conference and said "There was the Great Flood, when waters covered the earth" he meant to say "There was the myth story about the Great Flood, when figurative waters covered a figurative earth." Thanks for correcting the Lords Prophet, Seer and Revelator who talks directly with God. Now tell me, what are your credentials, exactly?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:I notice you haven't provided the actual quote from Dr Stephen E. Robinson, nor stated his credential for being an "official Church source" for declaring the Church's position on the literal nature of the flood.
I only quoted him because you were quoting a seminary manual.
Did you miss this disclaimer in the Bible dictionary?
This dictionary is provided to help your study of the scriptures and is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth.
How does the disclaimer which says the Bible Dictionary (as opposed to the actual scriptures) "is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth" help your claim that "It is not the Church's official position that the flood must be literal."[/quote]
I only quoted the disclaimer because you were quoting an non-doctrinal source to make your case.
"It is so hard to believe because it is so hard to obey." - Soren Kierkegaard