Bible verse by verse

[_LittleNipper]

1 Samuel 23:1-29 One day news came to David that the Philistines were at Keilah robbing the threshing floors. David asked the Lord if he should go and attack them. The Lord told David to the affirmative. David’s men said that they were afraid even in Judah; let alone going to Keilah to fight the whole Philistine army. The Lord again replied to go to Keilah and he will conquer the Philistines.

So they went to Keilah and slaughtered the Philistines and confiscated their cattle, and the people of Keilah were saved. (Abiathar the priest went to Keilah with David, taking his ephod with him to get answers for David from the Lord.) Saul soon learned that David was at Keilah. “Good!” he exclaimed. “We’ve got him now! God has delivered him to me, for he has trapped himself in a walled city!” Saul mobilized his entire army to march to Keilah and besiege David and his men. David learned of Saul’s plan and told Abiathar the priest to bring the ephod and to ask the Lord what he should do. And the Lord said that Saul will come, and the men of Keilah will betray David.

So David and his men—about six hundred of them now—left Keilah and began roaming the countryside. Word soon reached Saul that David had escaped, so he didn’t go there after all. David now lived in the wilderness caves in the hill country of Ziph. One day near Horesh he received the news that Saul was on the way to Ziph to search for him and kill him. Saul hunted him day after day, but the Lord didn’t let him find him. (Prince Jonathan went to find David; he met him at Horesh and encouraged him in his faith in God. He told David that he is going to be the king of Israel and Jonathan will stand by David. The two of them renewed their pact of friendship; and David stayed at Horesh while Jonathan returned home.)

But now the men of Ziph went to Saul in Gibeah and betrayed David to him. They said. “He is in the caves of Horesh on Hachilah Hill, down in the southern part of the wilderness. Come on down, sir, and we will catch him for you and your fondest wish will be fulfilled!” “Well, praise the Lord!” Saul said. “At last someone has had pity on me! Saul sends them to and check again to be sure of where he is staying and who has seen him there, knowing that David is very slippery. Saul wants a definite report.

So the men of Ziph returned home. But David heard that Saul was on his way to Ziph, he and his men went even further into the wilderness of Maon in the south of the desert. Saul followed them there. He and David were now on opposite sides of a mountain. As Saul and his men began to close in, David tried his best to escape, but it was no use. Just then a message reached Saul that the Philistines were raiding Israel again, so Saul quit the chase and returned to fight the Philistines. Ever since that time the place where David was camped has been called, “The Rock of Escape.” David then went to live in the caves of Engedi.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And they declare to David, saying, `Lo, the Philistines are fighting against Keilah, and they are spoiling the threshing-floors.'

2 And David asketh at Jehovah, saying, `Do I go? -- and have I smitten among these Philistines?' And Jehovah saith unto David, `Go, and thou hast smitten among the Philistines, and saved Keilah.'

3 And David's men say unto him, `Lo, we here in Judah are afraid; and how much more when we go to Keilah, unto the ranks of the Philistines?'

4 And David addeth again to ask at Jehovah, and Jehovah answereth him, and saith, `Rise, go down to Keilah, for I am giving the Philistines into thy hand.'

5 And David goeth, and his men, to Keilah, and fighteth with the Philistines, and leadeth away their cattle, and smiteth among them -- a great smiting, and David saveth the inhabitants of Keilah.

6 And it cometh to pass, in the fleeing of Abiathar son of Ahimelech unto David, to Keilah, an ephod came down in his hand.

7 And it is declared to Saul that David hath come in to Keilah, and Saul saith, `God hath made him known for my hand, for he hath been shut in, to enter into a city of doors and bar.'

8 And Saul summoneth the whole of the people to battle, to go down to Keilah, to lay siege unto David and unto his men.

9 And David knoweth that against him Saul is devising the evil, and saith unto Abiathar the priest, `Bring nigh the ephod.'

10 And David saith, `Jehovah, God of Israel, Thy servant hath certainly heard that Saul is seeking to come in unto Keilah, to destroy the city on mine account.

11 Do the possessors of Keilah shut me up into his hand? doth Saul come down as Thy servant hath heard? Jehovah, God of Israel, declare, I pray Thee, to Thy servant.' And Jehovah saith, `He doth come down.'

12 And David saith, `Do the possessors of Keilah shut me up, and my men, into the hand of Saul?' And Jehovah saith, `They shut [thee] up.'

13 And David riseth -- and his men -- about six hundred men, and they go out from Keilah, and go up and down where they go up and down; and to Saul it hath been declared that David hath escaped from Keilah, and he ceaseth to go out.

14 And David abideth in the wilderness, in fortresses, and abideth in the hill-country, in the wilderness of Ziph; and Saul seeketh him all the days, and God hath not given him into his hand.

15 And David seeth that Saul hath come out to seek his life, and David [is] in the wilderness of Ziph, in a forest.

16 And Jonathan son of Saul riseth, and goeth unto David to the forest, and strengtheneth his hand in God,

17 and saith unto him, `Fear not, for the hand of Saul my father doth not find thee, and thou dost reign over Israel, and I am to thee for second, and also so knoweth Saul my father.'

18 And they make a covenant both of them before Jehovah; and David abideth in the forest, and Jonathan hath gone to his house.

19 And the Ziphites go up unto Saul to Gibeah, saying, `Is not David hiding himself with us in fortresses, in the forest, in the height of Hachilah, which [is] on the south of the desolate place?

20 And, now, by all the desire of thy soul, O king, to come down, come down, and ours [is] to shut him up into the hand of the king.'

21 And Saul saith, `Blessed [are] ye of Jehovah, for ye have pity on me;

22 go, I pray you, prepare yet, and know and see his place where his foot is; who hath seen him there? for [one] hath said unto me, He is very subtile.

23 And see and know of all the hiding-places where he hideth himself, and ye have turned back unto me prepared, and I have gone with you, and it hath been, if he is in the land, that I have searched him out through all the thousands of Judah.'

24 And they rise and go to Ziph before Saul, and David and his men [are] in the wilderness of Maon, in the plain, at the south of the desolate place.

25 And Saul and his men go to seek, and they declare to David, and he goeth down the rock, and abideth in the wilderness of Maon; and Saul heareth, and pursueth after David [to] the wilderness of Maon.

26 And Saul goeth on this side of the mountain, and David and his men on that side of the mountain, and David is hastened to go from the face of Saul, and Saul and his men are compassing David and his men, to catch them.

27 And a messenger hath come in unto Saul, saying, `Haste, and come, for the Philistines have pushed against the land.'

28 And Saul turneth back from pursuing after David, and goeth to meet the Philistines, therefore they have called that place `The Rock of Divisions.'

29 And David goeth up thence, and abideth in fortresses [at] En-gedi.

[_Bazooka]

Fortunately for us, God doesn't punish people for misunderstanding what has not been fully revealed.

Hate-filled, intolerant and vindictive towards people to whom he has revealed things.
Got it.

[_ludwigm]

Fortunately for us, God doesn't punish people for misunderstanding what has not been fully revealed.

Hate-filled, intolerant and vindictive towards people to whom he has revealed things.
Got it.

But we are fortunate...

[_LittleNipper]

Fortunately for us, God doesn't punish people for misunderstanding what has not been fully revealed.

Hate-filled, intolerant and vindictive towards people to whom he has revealed things.
Got it.

And perhaps they (those whom He revealed things to) should know better? God does not provide any salvation for Satan. Could it be because Satan witnessed everything and God's glory and yet presumed to take over?

[Guest]

1 Samuel 24:1-22 After Saul’s return from his battle with the Philistines, he was told that David had gone into the wilderness of Engedi. Saul took 3000 special troops and went to search for David among the rocks and wild goats of the desert. Where the road passes some sheepfolds, Saul went into a cave to go to the bathroom; however, David and his men were hiding in the cave! “Now’s your chance” David’s men whispered to him. “Today is the day the Lord was talking about when he said, ‘I will certainly put Saul into your power, to do with as you wish’!” Then David crept forward and quietly slit off the bottom of Saul’s robe! But then his conscience began bothering him. David said to his men that to do such was a serious sin attacking God’s chosen king in any way. These words of David persuaded his men not to kill Saul.

After Saul had left the cave and gone on his way, David came out and shouted after him, “My lord the king!” And when Saul looked around, David bowed low before him. Then he shouted to Saul, “Why do you listen to the people who say I am trying to harm you? This very day you have seen it isn’t true. For the Lord placed you at my mercy back there in the cave, and some of my men told me to kill you, but I spared you. For I said, ‘I will never harm him—he is the Lord’s chosen king.’ See what I have in my hand? It is the hem of your robe! I cut it off, but I didn’t kill you! Doesn’t this convince you that I am not trying to harm you and that I have not sinned against you, even though you have been hunting for my life? The Lord will decide between us. Perhaps he will kill you for what you are trying to do to me, but I will never harm you. As that old saying, ‘Wicked is as wicked does,’ but despite your wickedness, I’ll not touch you. And who is the king of Israel trying to catch, anyway? Should he spend his time chasing one who is as worthless as a dead dog or a flea? May the Lord judge as to which of us is right and punish whichever one of us is guilty. He is my lawyer and defender, and he will rescue me from your power!”

Saul called back, “Is it really you, my son David?” Then he broke down crying. And he said to David, “You are a better man than I am, for you have repaid me good for evil. Yes, you have been wonderfully kind to me today, for when the Lord delivered me into your hand, you didn’t kill me. Who else in all the world would let his enemy get away when he had him in his power? May the Lord reward you well for the kindness you have shown me today. And now I realize that you are surely going to be king, and Israel shall be yours to rule. Oh, swear to me by the Lord that when that happens you will not kill my family and destroy my line of descendants!”

So David promised, and Saul went home, but David and his men went back to their stronghold.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And it cometh to pass when Saul hath turned back from after the Philistines, that they declare to him, saying, `Lo, David [is] in the wilderness of En-gedi.'

2 And Saul taketh three thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and goeth to seek David and his men, on the front of the rocks of the wild goats,

3 and he cometh in unto folds of the flock, on the way, and there [is] a cave, and Saul goeth in to cover his feet; and David and his men in the sides of the cave are abiding.

4 And the men of David say unto him, `Lo, the day of which Jehovah said unto thee, Lo, I am giving thine enemy into thy hand, and thou hast done to him as it is good in thine eyes;' and David riseth and cutteth off the skirt of the upper robe which [is] on Saul -- gently.

5 And it cometh to pass afterwards that the heart of David smiteth him, because that he hath cut off the skirt which [is] on Saul,

6 and he saith to his men, `Far be it from me, by Jehovah; I do not do this thing to my lord -- to the anointed of Jehovah -- to put forth my hand against him, for the anointed of Jehovah he [is].'

7 And David subdueth his men by words, and hath not permitted them to rise against Saul; and Saul hath risen from the cave, and goeth on the way;

8 and David riseth afterwards, and goeth out from the cave, and calleth after Saul, saying, `My lord, O king!' And Saul looketh attentively behind him, and David boweth -- face to the earth -- and doth obeisance.

9 And David saith to Saul, `Why dost thou hear the words of man, saying, Lo, David is seeking thine evil?

10 Lo, this day have thine eyes seen how that Jehovah hath given thee to-day into my hand in the cave; and [one] said to slay thee, and [mine eye] hath pity on thee, and I say, I do not put forth my hand against my lord, for the anointed of Jehovah he [is].

11 `And, my father, see, yea see the skirt of thine upper robe in my hand; for by cutting off the skirt of thy upper robe, and I have not slain thee, know and see that there is not in my hand evil and transgression, and I have not sinned against thee, and thou art hunting my soul to take it!

12 `Jehovah doth judge between me and thee, and Jehovah hath avenged me of thee, and my hand is not on thee;

13 as saith the simile of the ancients, From the wicked goeth out wickedness, and my hand is not on thee.

14 `After whom hath the king of Israel come out? after whom art thou pursuing? -- after a dead dog! after one flea!

15 And Jehovah hath been for judge, and hath judged between me and thee, yea, he seeth and pleadeth my cause, and doth deliver me out of thy hand.'

16 And it cometh to pass, when David completeth to speak these words unto Saul, that Saul saith, `Is this thy voice, my son David?' and Saul lifteth up his voice, and weepeth.

17 And he saith unto David, `More righteous thou [art] than I; for thou hast done me good, and I have done thee evil;

18 and thou hast declared to-day how that thou hast done good with me, how that Jehovah shut me up into thy hand, and thou didst not slay me,

19 and that a man doth find his enemy, and hath sent him away in a good manner; and Jehovah doth repay thee good for that which thou didst to me this day.

20 `And, now, lo, I have known that thou dost certainly reign, and the kingdom of Israel hath stood in thy hand;

21 and, now, swear to me by Jehovah -- thou dost not cut off my seed after me, nor dost thou destroy my name from the house of my father.'

22 And David sweareth to Saul, and Saul goeth unto his house, and David and his men have gone up unto the fortress.

[_Bazooka]

Fortunately for us, God doesn't punish people for misunderstanding what has not been fully revealed.

Hate-filled, intolerant and vindictive towards people to whom he has revealed things.
Got it.

And perhaps they (those whom He revealed things to) should know better? God does not provide any salvation for Satan. Could it be because Satan witnessed everything and God's glory and yet presumed to take over?

So...hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive and unforgiving.
Got it.

[_LittleNipper]

Fortunately for us, God doesn't punish people for misunderstanding what has not been fully revealed.

Hate-filled, intolerant and vindictive towards people to whom he has revealed things.
Got it.

And perhaps they (those whom He revealed things to) should know better? God does not provide any salvation for Satan. Could it be because Satan witnessed everything and God's glory and yet presumed to take over?

Bazooka wrote: So...hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive and unforgiving. Got it.


What exactly are you out to prove? God is long suffering. He is not quick to punish. God has made a way for those who will believe. You actually sound hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive, and unforgiving. Would you judge God?

[_Bazooka]

Bazooka wrote: So...hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive and unforgiving. Got it.


What exactly are you out to prove? God is long suffering. He is not quick to punish. God has made a way for those who will believe. You actually sound hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive, and unforgiving. Would you judge God?

We are on page 93 of your thread, it's not me who's out to prove something...

Would I judge God? Isn't that the purpose behind your 93 pages - that we form a judgement of God based on what you are posting?

[_LittleNipper]

Bazooka wrote: So...hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive and unforgiving. Got it.


What exactly are you out to prove? God is long suffering. He is not quick to punish. God has made a way for those who will believe. You actually sound hate-filled, intolerant, vindictive, and unforgiving. Would you judge God?

We are on page 93 of your thread, it's not me who's out to prove something...

Would I judge God? Isn't that the purpose behind your 93 pages - that we form a judgement of God based on what you are posting?

The Bible clearly is of God in that it makes man out to be painfully slow in understanding the obvious. The Bible is not out to promote man as some super hero. The Bible demonstrates just how depraved and how needy man actually is. And yet, while we were yet sinners God provided a Savior and incorporated man as a part of that process.

[_huckelberry]

The Bible clearly is of God in that it makes man out to be painfully slow in understanding the obvious. The Bible is not out to promote man as some super hero. The Bible demonstrates just how depraved and how needy man actually is. And yet, while we were yet sinners God provided a Savior and incorporated man as a part of that process.

Little Nipper, it may be that the three thoughts you mention above are so familiar to you that you may assume other people see their logic. For other people in fact a little explanation might help.

Do you see other books, not the Bible, as promoting man as a super hero? I found myself trying to think of a book like that and was coming up blank. It seems to me that all sorts of books take a good look at human shortcomings and the tragic dimension of human life. Some books may focus on depravity more than others but it is hard to see the Bible as having more understanding of that human problem than many other books.

I do not understand your first sentence. If many many many books understand human depravity why would the Bibles inclusion in that group show clearly that it is of God? Frankly I do not think it shows that much.

On the other hand I have heard Christians and Jews state that the hope pointed out in the Bible carries enough weight to cause people to believe in the Bible. I believe that is true but it is not an obvious thing.People need to live in the light of that hope to find reason to trust it. It may take years or a life time for that to come together. You might consider whether obvious reasons to believe the Bible might prove to be superficial and fall apart for people over the years. Best to locate the hope I think. People see a lot of reasons not to believe the Bible. Offering them condemnation for not believing closes or hides the door to the one path for a person to find faith.