Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

[_huckelberry]

Real HONEST science is observation coupled with repeatability. Anything less than that is opinion no matter the credentials.

That is why river erosion tells time.

[_LittleNipper]

Real HONEST science is observation coupled with repeatability. Anything less than that is opinion no matter the credentials.

That is why river erosion tells time.

And "Climate Change" is demonstrating a different explanation. Change can happen very, very, very, quickly ---- so the Flood would have a large impact on climate, as well as, topography and geography and fossil formation and species obliteration. That is why I do no fret over the doom and gloom pronouncements coming from evolution indoctrinated politicians. They do not fathom that GOD and NOT US is technically in control.

[_The CCC]

The Flood in the Bible never happened.

[_Themis]

The Flood in the Bible never happened.

That's not good for the Book of Mormon.

[_spotlight]

Our galaxy will collide with Andromeda galaxy four billion years from now. The picture here shows what Andromeda will look like 250 million years before it hits.

When galaxies collide, almost all stars sail past each other unharmed. A few planets get knocked out of orbit. Colliding clouds of gas and dust form new stars, often blue giants that live short, dramatic lives, going supernova after just 10 million years.

The real danger comes from the sleeping monsters at the heart of the colliding galaxies. Namely, the supermassive black holes!

Almost every galaxy has a huge black hole at its center. This black hole is quiet when not being fed. But when galaxies collide, lots of gas and dust and even stars get caught by the gravity and pulled in. This material forms a huge flat disk as it spirals down and heats up. The result is an active galactic nucleus.

In the worst case, the central black holes can eat thousands of stars a year. Then we get a quasar, which easily pumps out the power of 2000 ordinary galaxies.

Much of this power comes out in huge jets of X-rays. These jets keep growing, eventually stretching for hundreds of thousands of light years. The whole galaxy becomes bathed in X-rays — killing all life.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/doomed.html

It's all intelligently designed. *cough*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4disyKG7XtU
0:30 to 0:50

[_huckelberry]

Real HONEST science is observation coupled with repeatability. Anything less than that is opinion no matter the credentials.///
/// Huckelberry thinking erosion is an ongoing repeating process which is observable thought to say
"That is why river erosion tells time."
////
Little Nipper replied,

And "Climate Change" is demonstrating a different explanation. Change can happen very, very, very, quickly ---- so the Flood would have a large impact on climate, as well as, topography and geography and fossil formation and species obliteration. That is why I do no fret over the doom and gloom pronouncements coming from evolution indoctrinated politicians. They do not fathom that GOD and NOT US is technically in control.

Little Nipper,
You are not using observation or repeatability. You have declared your words to be opinion only.

You are correct that there are changes that happen very very fast. Mt St Helens exploding is an example. There are others changes which are slow, like forming a short narrow v canyon with a small stream at the bottom. The difference between fast and slow is easily seen in the kind of result.

[_huckelberry]

Our galaxy will collide with Andromeda galaxy four billion years from now. The picture here shows what Andromeda will look like 250 million years before it hits.

When galaxies collide, almost all stars sail past each other unharmed. A few planets get knocked out of orbit. Colliding clouds of gas and dust form new stars, often blue giants that live short, dramatic lives, going supernova after just 10 million years.

The real danger comes from the sleeping monsters at the heart of the colliding galaxies. Namely, the supermassive black holes!

Almost every galaxy has a huge black hole at its center. This black hole is quiet when not being fed. But when galaxies collide, lots of gas and dust and even stars get caught by the gravity and pulled in. This material forms a huge flat disk as it spirals down and heats up. The result is an active galactic nucleus.

In the worst case, the central black holes can eat thousands of stars a year. Then we get a quasar, which easily pumps out the power of 2000 ordinary galaxies.

Much of this power comes out in huge jets of X-rays. These jets keep growing, eventually stretching for hundreds of thousands of light years. The whole galaxy becomes bathed in X-rays — killing all life.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/doomed.html

It's all intelligently designed. *cough*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4disyKG7XtU
0:30 to 0:50

spotlight,
I enjoyed the article and the picture is nice.
However I do not really follow how this has some sort of baring on whether the universe was created by God (which is what I presume you mean by intelligent design) Does creation mean small simple and with little change? You do not need to look this far to find that things bump into each other with little regard for us.

You have me wondering how Nipper views the problem of accidents.

[_huckelberry]

And "Climate Change" is demonstrating a different explanation. Change can happen very, very, very, quickly ---- so the Flood would have a large impact on climate, as well as, topography and geography and fossil formation and species obliteration. That is why I do no fret over the doom and gloom pronouncements coming from evolution indoctrinated politicians. They do not fathom that GOD and NOT US is technically in control.

Little Nipper,
There is something else troubling me about this proposal.

Suppose you were driving down a two lane country rode, windows rolled down doing about 55 and upon topping a rise you see a group of five cows standing in the road. Do you observe that God is technically in control and not us and take no self centered action like applying the breaks? You could choose to trust the cows to move aside enough for you to pass.

It sounds like this is the sort of trust you are recommending for our approach to climate change.

Or are you trying to say that because God is in control bad things do not happen? Or perhaps all bad things that are headed our way are punishments for sin in Gods control that we must humbly accept as part of repentance.

[_spotlight]

spotlight,
I enjoyed the article and the picture is nice.
However I do not really follow how this has some sort of baring on whether the universe was created by God (which is what I presume you mean by intelligent design) Does creation mean small simple and with little change? You do not need to look this far to find that things bump into each other with little regard for us.

You have me wondering how Nipper views the problem of accidents.

Thanks for the kind comment,

For LDS the creation mentioned in Genesis is that of this earth and not of the entire universe.
https://www.LDS.org/manual/old-testamen ... n?lang=eng

In recent general conference the Big Bang has been mocked by the prophets. This is another support for the idea that God did not create the universe per LDS theology. In fact most LDS probably believe the universe has been around forever.

But as "many worlds have gone before and many more will come hereafter" the idea of creation is one where Gods organize elements to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. So these are mortal spheres of existence.

The example given of galaxies becoming lethal habitats for all life poses a problem for the LDS theology of creation in that you have entire galaxies going to waste, our galaxy not excepted. Are the Gods able to organize the elements on the scale of planets but not on the scale of galaxies?

Of course the Universe can't have been around forever, not just from the fact of its ongoing expansion, but from the fact that after stars fuse lighter elements eventually to Iron all of the available energy has been extracted and the fuel has been used up. It would require the same energy to return the iron back to lighter elements as was gotten from the fusion to begin with. Not a very elegant use of fusion energy as the vast majority of star light flies off into space and is lost.

If the LDS God could convert that Iron back to Hydrogen and Helium that would be an act of creation ex nihilo as he would be creating energy ex nihilo and if God could do that then he could create element ex nihilo as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_creation

Otherwise He is using available energy just as we do and entropy increase is involved with this normal usage of available energy.

So consistent with the idea that the LDS God cannot create ex nihilo and in consideration of the law of entropy increase we arrive at a time when it is no longer possible to extract useful work from the heat energy of the universe which is referred to as the heat death of the universe. At this point in time the LDS God becomes powerless to do anything. Organizing elements requires work.

[_The CCC]

The Flood in the Bible never happened.

That's not good for the Book of Mormon.

That stories, true or false, get passed down is nothing new.