spotlight wrote:In a recent meeting Elder Bednar was asked a question by a sister missionary about women and the priesthood. He’ gave his own thoughts about the subject and when he concluded, the sister asked a follow up question. “Are there any scriptures that talk about this subject?” Elder Bednar responded, “I am scripture.”
And when not moved upon by the HG it does not help that the leaders by and large are ignorant fruits.
What I find absolutely fascinating is how the leaders can say that what they say overrides the scriptures. Now I feel that most of the scriptures are either symbolic or myth, but it seems at least to me that the most important verses are the ones they step on. Yet people line up to worship these leaders. Prophet worship was done away with when Christ made an end to the Law of Moses. Yet here we are with millions doing the same thing as the children of Israel did in the desert for 40 years.
I read the Book of Mormon and knew that some truth was contained in the book. Oh silly me I thought the church actually followed the book they ask new people to read. Then when I saw that the church does not follow the Book of Mormon or even the gospel I had to leave the church. I still study the scriptures but not as much as I used to. Most of what can be received from them I have obtained. Vain repetition is not my thing.
In the church I met many people who would not even try and interpret a verse of scripture. Instead they would search the words of the prophet. Yet it was Christ who said use your own mind to find truth. But the prophet overrides even Christ in the LDS church. I hung around for months just to witness this madness.
Franktalk, Finally a post with much I can agree with. A TBM might counter with what about those born to Adam and Eve? What scriptures did they follow and what was the difference between those and father Adam himself?
But I still have to say that using one's mind alone to discern truth is fraught with problems.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
spotlight wrote:Franktalk, Finally a post with much I can agree with. A TBM might counter with what about those born to Adam and Eve? What scriptures did they follow and what was the difference between those and father Adam himself?
The whole garden of Eden thing is symbolic. What actually happened is advanced humans came to the earth and seeded the human race. Exactly how that was done does not matter. But the first humans were taught many things and at some point they were left alone. Humans being human things fell apart very quickly. Exactly when that happened does not matter as well.
What is true is a connection to our advanced self happens on the first breath of an infant. That whole breathing a spirit into Adam is symbolic of what happens to all of us on birth.
Since we come back here time after time we all have a chance to read the scriptures if we wish to.
Franktalk, how can you not see that what you are claiming is not the slightest bit less outlandish and silly than what you criticized Mormon prophets for claiming? This fits your pattern of confidently asserting the truth of things you think of that by your own admission have no supporting evidence at all, while questioning the truth of scientific reality that is very abundantly supported by evidence. Whether you believe it or not, your unsupported inner thoughts can not be a more reliable guide to truth than solid, empirical and repeatable evidence, and certainly unlikely to be any more reliable than those of any other mystics or would-be prophets. That you seem unable to understand this very obvious fact is remarkably solipsistic and irrational of you.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
Franktalk wrote: What actually happened is advanced humans came to the earth and seeded the human race.
Hey Frank,
The facts behind ERVs are pretty straight forward and not that difficult to understand. They point to common ancestry between humans and the other apes. That could not be the case if we were planted here as you believe. I know you also believe that this whole arrangement had to be hidden from us but that requires placing false evidence into our DNA to make it look as if something else is the reality. How many arrangements of our DNA are possible that still result in us being what we are? I am guessing the degree of fluidity necessary for what you believe is not very likely. If you choose to think otherwise that is your decision. But for me the idea that not only ERVs being falsely inserted to look as if they came by way of common descent but also all of the pseudogenes and LINES and SINES as well could be inserted and still have DNA that acts exactly in the same manner as it would without those changes is a very big pill to swallow.
On top of this there is no evidence to suspect that what you say is true to begin with - that there was a need to hide this truth from us. You simply made this idea up to explain why there is no evidence for your world view. Sorry that it's not convincing. And it has the nasty side effect of pitting us against the evidence. That is a very high price to pay. It blocks our progress and advancement in knowledge and understanding.
What if the best we can do, the greatest good we can accomplish, is to design a form of life that need not face death - at least for a very long time. We recognise the limits we ourselves cannot transcend and create an improved form of life not so restrained by the vagaries of the evolutionary past to which we are held. That would be a worthy goal and reason to live and press forward would it not? What do we accomplish following your path? Nothing at all. We just stop all progress and sit around and reassure ourselves that we are going to transcend death and we need not work or study or learn anything new. And yet you admit you do not know this to be the case. You speculate that it is all part of the plan. What if you are right? What does continued progress in science hurt us in the long run? I can't think of anything of a negative consequence. It's all hidden from us already according to your way of seeing the world. That is the only negative consequence of following science, an incorrect view of reality which according to you we have anyhow by design. So what's to lose by accepting science and following it where it may lead us and seeing what we can accomplish?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
Gunnar wrote:Franktalk, how can you not see that what you are claiming is not the slightest bit less outlandish and silly than what you criticized Mormon prophets for claiming? This fits your pattern of confidently asserting the truth of things you think of that by your own admission have no supporting evidence at all, while questioning the truth of scientific reality that is very abundantly supported by evidence. Whether you believe it or not, your unsupported inner thoughts can not be a more reliable guide to truth than solid, empirical and repeatable evidence, and certainly unlikely to be any more reliable than those of any other mystics or would-be prophets. That you seem unable to understand this very obvious fact is remarkably solipsistic and irrational of you.
What I claim I feel is true. I really don't care if anyone accepts it. Please just treat it as an opinion that you can toss away. I do not desire a church, I do not desire followers, I do not desire money or any recognition for these beliefs. But crazier things have been accepted by man. The whole quantum mechanics thing is pretty weird. But man in general has accepted it as reality. But because quantum mechanics is part of the physical world it can be tested and it has proved out so far. The things I talk about can not be tested except at a personal level. No second person evidence can be gathered together. This is the way it all has been designed. This keeps the natural world in a state where we get emotionally attached to it. It matters to us. We are driven to fix it or break it. A wonderful place to experience a mortal life even though we are in reality eternal creatures.
One can look at religion in two ways. One could say it is a man made system to moderate the fear of death. Or another way of looking at it is we all have a feeling that there is more going on than we can see. We just get all of the details wrong. I see religion as a mixture of the two. To be honest religion really stirs the pot so man has a real nonboring life down here.
The facts behind ERVs are pretty straight forward and not that difficult to understand. They point to common ancestry between humans and the other apes. That could not be the case if we were planted here as you believe.
Yes the animals of this earth are patterned after the designs of animals designed over countless planetary systems. It is all part of the seeding that takes place. Even the common ancestor is part of the system of seeding. The last step to form a brain that can form a bond with an advanced being is done as I have said. The design of this place can not give away any clues of what is truly going on. That would spoil how we embed ourselves in this physical world.
Just imagine in the future a group of people designing a digital simulation of a universe. Then if people have their memories blocked when they enter the simulation they would feel the simulation is real. Now take the next step and see a group of people who exist in a layer of reality and use another layer as a simulation. The technology required to do this is beyond what we can do today but not beyond our imagination as possible given eternity. All I am saying is that it has already happened and we are living in layers of reality. It is a natural consequence of eternity. If there are eternal creatures then it has already happened. To escape the boredom of knowing everything layers of limited memory must be made.
We have free will so any human in this reality can have access to the knowledge of how this reality is designed. But most do not want to know. Having taken that path as laid out by Christ in the scriptures it has allowed me to see what is really going on. His promise that death loses its sting and many other things turn out to be true. And His statement that no one will believe you is also true. To me it is confirmation. But it all personal evidence. This is why I act so sure of myself when describing this belief system. But I know that no matter how I describe the reality I see it will be rejected. To me it is just fascinating.
