Bible verse by verse

[Guest]

Not exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some "Christians" don't believe that the Genesis creation and the Flood record are literal.

Probably because they're not.

There should be Christian Chinese linguists that disagree with what I accept from the very learned Chinese Christian scholar.

You mean the English-speaking minister who isn't fluent in Mandarin, and who therefore needs a Mandarin-speaking interpreter in order to address a Mandarin audience? Whatever...

And I would imagine that he would know more about the Chinese language than most western atheists.

Yeah, because imagination is all you have to go on at this point.

It is dishonest of you to imply that this man is wrong because he disagrees with what you learned from those who have every desire to disparage Christ at every opportunity.

Wrong--I'm implying nothing; I'm saying explicitly that he's mixing up semantic-phonetic compound elements and compound-indicative elements in an attempt to misrepresent the origins of the ideograms in question. (Do you even know what the word "imply" means???) Here are my sources, one from an English-speaking author, and one from a Chinese-speaking author:

Chinese Characters: Their origin, etymology, history, classification and signification, by Dr. L. Wieger, S.J.

Chinese Writing, by Qiu Xigui (Early China Special Monograph Series No. 4, translated into English by Gilbert L. Mattos and Jerry Norman)

And no, Nipper, I'm not disparaging Christ. I'm disparaging your misrepresentations.

And you don't want to see, that coincidence after coincidence (regarding not just a few ancient Chinese characters) doesn't amount to the likely conclusion that there is much more going on than you care to accept.

Do you even know what the difference is between a "coincidence" and a blatant misrepresentation?

Yet, you will accept evolution based on far less circumstantial evidence.....

Oh, I see; instead of asking me what I will and will not accept you're going to tell me what I will and will not accept.

And how did we get from Chinese ideograms to Evolution? Are you attempting to beat a hasty retreat from a losing battle?

What separates us is The Lord Jesus Christ. I'm sorry that you are so alone. Without Christ one is in darkness and will not see the light nor accept it. What you believe is what you wish to accept and not necessarily the truth. I am not going to suggest that I have everything absolutely correct. However, I will not believe that you have a handle on everything. And the fact that you can not know where you are headed after death (since you obviously do not believe in an afterlife), tells me that you are missing the target entirely. Data can be interpreted according to one's leaning. And since I know that Christ is the only one who can save anyone, I at least have access to God's leading. Words have historic origin, but you are far too bend on proving they do not and that the Bible has to be false to see anything different.

[_Bazooka]

What you believe is what you wish to accept and not necessarily the truth.

You don't really get irony, do you....

[_LittleNipper]

What you believe is what you wish to accept and not necessarily the truth.

You don't really get irony, do you....

The irony I see is that some people go through life without understanding why we exist and what our purpose is ---------- don't wish to be encouraged to find out.

[Guest]

1 Kings 15:1-34 Abijam began to rule over Judah in the eighteenth year of Jeroboam’s reign in Israel ---- reigning in Jerusalem three years. His mother was Maacah, the daughter of Absalom. He lived as his father, and he was not faithful to the Lord his God, as David (his grandfather) had been. But for David’s sake, the Lord his God allowed his descendants to continue ruling, shining like a lamp, and he gave Abijam a son to rule after him in Jerusalem. For David had done what was pleasing in the Lord’s sight and had obeyed the Lord’s commands throughout his life, except in that concerning Uriah the Hittite.

There was war between Abijam and Jeroboam throughout Abijam’s reign. The rest of the events in Abijam’s reign and everything he did are recorded in The Book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah. There was constant war between Abijam and Jeroboam. When Abijam died, he was buried in Jerusalem. His son Asa became the next king. Asa began to rule over Judah in the 20 year of Jeroboam’s reign in Israel --- reigning in Jerusalem 41 years. His grandmother was Maacah, the daughter of Absalom.

Asa pleased the Lord, as his ancestor David had done. He banished the male and female shrine prostitutes from the land and got rid of all the idols his ancestors had made. 13 He even banished his grandmother Maacah from her position as queen mother because she had made an obscene Asherah pole. He cut down her obscene pole and burned it in the Kidron Valley. Although the pagan shrines were not removed, Asa’s heart remained completely faithful to the Lord throughout his life. He brought into the Temple of the Lord the silver and gold and the various items that he and his father had dedicated.

There was constant war between King Asa of Judah and King Baasha of Israel. King Baasha of Israel invaded Judah and fortified Ramah in order to prevent anyone from entering or leaving King Asa’s territory in Judah. Asa responded by removing all the silver and gold that was left in the treasuries of the Temple of the Lord and the royal palace. He sent it with some of his officials to Ben-hadad son of Tabrimmon, son of Hezion, the king of Aram, who was ruling in Damascus, with this message:

“Let there be a treaty between you and me like the one between your father and my father. See, I am sending you a gift of silver and gold. Break your treaty with King Baasha of Israel so that he will leave me alone.”

Ben-hadad agreed to King Asa’s request and sent the commanders of his army to attack the towns of Israel. They conquered the towns of Ijon, Dan, Abel-beth-maacah, and all Kinnereth, and all the land of Naphtali. As soon as Baasha of Israel heard what was happening, he abandoned his project of fortifying Ramah and withdrew to Tirzah. Then King Asa sent an order throughout Judah, requiring that everyone, without exception, help to destroy the fortifications Ramah. Asa used the dismantaled materials to fortify the town of Geba in Benjamin and the town of Mizpah.

The rest of the events in Asa’s reign—the extent of his power, everything he did, and the names of the cities he built—are recorded in The book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah . In his old age his feet became diseased. When Asa died, he was buried with his ancestors in the City of David. Jehoshaphat, Asa’s son, became the next king.

Nadab son of Jeroboam began to rule over Israel in the 2nd year of King Asa’s reign in Judah --- reigning in Israel 2 years. He did what was evil in the Lord’s sight and followed the example of his father, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit.

Baasha son of Ahijah, from the tribe of Issachar, plotted against Nadab and assassinated him while he and the Israelite army were laying siege to the Philistine town of Gibbethon. Baasha killed Nadab in the 3rd year of King Asa’s reign in Judah, and he became the next king of Israel. He immediately slaughtered all the descendants of King Jeroboam, so that not one of the royal family was left, just as the Lord had promised concerning Jeroboam by the prophet Ahijah from Shiloh. This was done because Jeroboam had provoked the anger of the Lord, the God of Israel, by the sins he had committed and the sins he had led Israel to commit. The rest of the events in Nadab’s reign and everything he did are recorded in The book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel.

There was constant war between King Asa of Judah and King Baasha of Israel. Baasha son of Ahijah began to rule over all Israel in the 3rd year of King Asa’s reign in Judah. Baasha reigned in Tirzah 24 years --- doing what was evil in the Lord’s sight and followed the example of Jeroboam, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to practice.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And in the eighteenth year of king Jeroboam son of Nebat, reigned hath Abijam over Judah;

2 three years he hath reigned in Jerusalem, and the name of his mother [is] Maachah daughter of Abishalom;

3 and he walketh in all the sins of his father, that he did before him, and his heart hath not been perfect with Jehovah his God, as the heart of David his father;

4 but for David's sake hath Jehovah his God given to him a lamp in Jerusalem, to raise up his son after him, and to establish Jerusalem,

5 in that David did that which [is] right in the eyes of Jehovah, and turned not aside from all that He commanded him all days of his life -- only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite;

6 and war hath been between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all the days of his life.

7 And the rest of the matters of Abijam, and all that he did, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah? And war hath been between Abijam and Jeroboam;

8 and Abijam lieth with his fathers, and they bury him in the city of David, and reign doth Asa his son in his stead.

9 And in the twentieth year of Jeroboam king of Israel reigned hath Asa over Judah,

10 and forty and one years he hath reigned in Jerusalem, and the name of his mother [is] Maachah daughter of Abishalom.

11 And Asa doth that which [is] right in the eyes of Jehovah, like David his father,

12 and removeth the whoremongers out of the land, and turneth aside all the idols that his fathers made;

13 and also Maachah his mother -- he turneth her aside from being mistress, in that she made a horrible thing for a shrine, and Asa cutteth down her horrible thing, and burneth [it] by the brook Kidron;

14 and the high places have not turned aside; only, the heart of Asa hath been perfect with Jehovah all his days,

15 and he bringeth in the sanctified things of his father, and his own sanctified things, to the house of Jehovah, silver, and gold, and vessels.

16 And war hath been between Asa and Baasha king of Israel all their days,

17 and Baasha king of Israel goeth up against Judah, and buildeth Ramah, not to permit any one going out and coming in to Asa king of Judah.

18 And Asa taketh all the silver and the gold that are left in the treasures of the house of Jehovah, and the treasures of the house of the king, and giveth them into the hand of his servants, and king Asa sendeth them unto Ben-Hadad, son of Tabrimmon, son of Hezion king of Aram, who is dwelling in Damascus, saying,

19 `A covenant [is] between me and thee, between my father and thy father; lo, I have sent to thee a reward of silver and gold; go, break thy covenant with Baasha king of Israel, and he goeth up from off me.'

20 And Ben-Hadad hearkeneth unto king Asa, and sendeth the heads of the forces that he hath against cities of Israel, and smiteth Ijon, and Dan, and Abel-Beth-Maachah, and all Chinneroth, besides all the land of Naphtali;

21 and it cometh to pass at Baasha's hearing, that he ceaseth from building Ramah, and dwelleth in Tirzah.

22 And king Asa hath summoned all Judah -- there is none exempt -- and they lift up the stones of Ramah, and its wood, that Baasha hath built, and king Asa buildeth with them Geba of Benjamin, and Mizpah.

23 And the rest of all the matters of Asa, and all his might, and all that he did, and the cities that he built, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Judah? Only, at the time of his old age he was diseased in his feet;

24 and Asa lieth with his fathers, and is buried with his fathers in the city of David his father, and Jehoshaphat his son reigneth in his stead.

25 And Nadab son of Jeroboam hath reigned over Israel, in the second year of Asa king of Judah, and he reigneth over Israel two years,

26 and doth the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, and goeth in the way of his father, and in his sin that he made Israel to sin.

27 And conspire against him doth Baasha son of Ahijah, of the house of Issachar, and Baasha smiteth him in Gibbethon, which [is] to the Philistines -- and Nadab and all Israel are laying siege against Gibbethon --

28 yea, Baasha putteth him to death in the third year of Asa king of Judah, and reigneth in his stead.

29 And it cometh to pass, at his reigning, he hath smitten the whole house of Jeroboam, he hath not left any breathing to Jeroboam till his destroying him, according to the word of Jehovah, that He spake by the hand of His servant Ahijah the Shilonite,

30 because of the sins of Jeroboam that he sinned, and that he caused Israel to sin, by his provocation with which he provoked to anger Jehovah, God of Israel.

31 And the rest of the matters of Nadab, and all that he did, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel?

32 And war hath been between Asa and Baasha king of Israel all their days.

33 In the third year of Asa king of Judah reigned hath Baasha son of Ahijah over all Israel in Tirzah, twenty and four years,

34 and he doth the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, and walketh in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin that he caused Israel to sin.

[_Bazooka]

What you believe is what you wish to accept and not necessarily the truth.

You don't really get irony, do you....

The irony I see is that some people go through life without understanding why we exist and what our purpose is ---------- don't wish to be encouraged to find out.

Thanks for unwittingly reinforcing the point.

[_LittleNipper]

You don't really get irony, do you....

The irony I see is that some people go through life without understanding why we exist and what our purpose is ---------- don't wish to be encouraged to find out.

Thanks for unwittingly reinforcing the point.

So says the one holding a bazooka in the classroom............

[_The Erotic Apologist]

What separates us is The Lord Jesus Christ.

No--what separates us is your belief in a magical, supernatural Christ. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for the human being known in the Bible as Jesus Christ, but I don't see him as a magical, supernatural creature. You would know this if you took the time to read the other posts before cutting-and-pasting your latest wall-of-text.

I'm sorry that you are so alone. Without Christ one is in darkness and will not see the light nor accept it.

This statement is based on the premise that non-Christians are always lonely, and that Christians are always happy. This is an obvious falsehood.

I am not going to suggest that I have everything absolutely correct.

Then why do you find it necessary to resort to misrepresentations in order to propagate your beliefs?

However, I will not believe that you have a handle on everything.

Please show me where I claim to "have a handle on everything".

And the fact that you can not know where you are headed after death (since you obviously do not believe in an afterlife), tells me that you are missing the target entirely.

This statement shows you are incapable of distinguishing between what one knows and what one believes.

And since I know that Christ is the only one who can save anyone, I at least have access to God's leading.

Again, this statement shows you are incapable of distinguishing between what one knows and what one believes.

Words have historic origin...

Are we talking about "words" or Chinese ideograms? I'm pretty sure the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, not Chinese ideograms.

...but you are far too bend on proving they do not and that the Bible has to be false to see anything different.

Again, if you'll take the trouble to read my posts you'll find that I fully acknowledge the Bible's importance from a literary and a cultural standpoint. The only area where I take issue with the Bible involves it's magical, supernatural claims.

[Guest]

What separates us is The Lord Jesus Christ.

No--what separates us is your belief in a magical, supernatural Christ. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for the human being known in the Bible as Jesus Christ, but I don't see him as a magical, supernatural creature. You would know this if you took the time to read the other posts before cutting-and-pasting your latest wall-of-text.

So, you see Jesus as dead. You believe that I am misinterpreting. You imagine that Christians cannot ever feel lonely. You believe that Chinese writing cannot reflect very ancient tales that Chinese developing writing were inevitably aware of. You believe that diverse language did not originate at Babel. You do not believe that man spread out from there to populate the globe. Characters in Chinese writing reflect well over 4500 years of development. How likely is it that they never had outside influence in all that time! They are not a separate species! I believe you to be misguided and very naïve.

[_LittleNipper]

1 Kings 16:1-34 the Lord came to Jehu the son of Hanani against Baasha, saying, “I took you from the dust and gave you honor. I made you leader over My people Israel. But you have walked in the way of Jeroboam and have made My people Israel sin. You have made Me angry with their sins. So I will destroy Baasha and his house. I will make your house like the family of Jeroboam the son of Nebat. The dogs will eat anyone of Baasha’s family who dies in the city. And the birds of the air will eat anyone of his who dies in the field.”

The rest of the acts of Baasha are recorded in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel. Baasha died and was buried in Tirzah. His son Elah became king in his place. The word of the Lord came against Baasha and his house through Jehu (by God) the son of Hanani because Baasha had done what was wrong in the eyes of the Lord. He made the Lord angry with the work of his hands, acting out just like the family of Jeroboam --- whom God destroyed.

In the 26th year of Asa king of Judah, Elah the son of Baasha became king of Israel at Tirzah. He ruled for 2 years. His servant Zimri, captain of half his war-wagons, made plans against him. Elah was at Tirzah getting drunk among the family of Arza. Arza was the head of the house at Tirzah. Zimri went in and hit him -- killing him, in the 27 year of Asa king of Judah. And Zimri became king in his place. And as soon as Zimri sat on his throne, he ordered all of Baasha’s family killed. He did not leave alive one male, of his brothers or of his friends. So Zimri destroyed the whole family of Baasha, as was spoken against Baasha by the word of the Lord through Jehu the man who spoke for God. They made the Lord God of Israel angry with their false gods. The rest of the acts of Elah are recorded in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.

In the 27th year of Asa king of Judah, Zimri ruled 7 days at Tirzah. Now the people were gathered against Gibbethon, which belonged to the Philistines. The people who were gathered heard that Zimri made plans and killed the king. So all Israel made Omri, the captain of the army, the king of Israel that day among the tents. Omri went with all Israel up from Gibbethon, and they gathered in battle around Tirzah. When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into an inside room of the palace. And he burned it down around himself, and died. He died because of his sins. He did what was wrong in the eyes of the Lord, acting like Jeroboam. And by example, he caused Israel to sin. The rest of the acts of Zimri are recorded in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel.

The people of Israel were divided into two parts. Half of the people followed Tibni the son of Ginath, to make him king. The other half followed Omri. But the people who followed Omri won over the people who followed Tibni the son of Ginath. Tibni died and Omri became king. In the 31st year of Asa king of Judah, Omri became the king of Israel. He ruled for 12 years. For 6 he ruled at Tirzah. And he bought the hill of Samaria from Shemer for silver the weight of about 2 men. He built on the hill, and gave the city he built the name of Samaria, after the name of Shemer, the owner of the hill. Omri did what was sinful in the eyes of the Lord. He acted worse than all who were before him. He behaved just like Jeroboam the son of Nebat. And in his sin he made Israel sin. They made the Lord God of Israel angry with their false worship. The rest of the acts of Omri are recorded in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel. Omri died and was buried in Samaria. His son Ahab became king in his place.

Omri’s son Ahab became king of Israel in the 38th year of Asa king of Judah. He ruled over Israel in Samaria for 22 years. Ahab was sinful in the eyes of the Lord more than all who were before him. He thought it was a small thing to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat. He married Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians. Then he went to serve the false god Baal and worshiped him. He built an altar for Baal in the temple of Baal, which he had erected in Samaria. Ahab had made a wooden idol to the false goddess Asherah. Ahab did more to make the Lord God of Israel angry than all the kings of Israel before him. In his days Hiel the Bethelite built Jericho. His first-born son Abiram died as he began to build the city. His youngest son Segub died as he put up its gates. It happened as prophesied through Joshua the son of Nun --- by God.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And a word of Jehovah is unto Jehu son of Hanani, against Baasha, saying,

2 `Because that I have raised thee up out of the dust, and appoint thee leader over My people Israel, and thou walkest in the way of Jeroboam, and causest My people Israel to sin -- to provoke Me to anger with their sins;

3 lo, I am putting away the posterity of Baasha, even the posterity of his house, and have given up thy house as the house of Jeroboam son of Nebat;

4 him who dieth of Baasha in a city do the dogs eat, and him who dieth of his in a field do fowl of the heavens eat.'

5 And the rest of the matters of Baasha, and that which he did, and his might, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel?

6 And Baasha lieth with his fathers, and is buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son reigneth in his stead.

7 And also by the hand of Jehu son of Hanani the prophet a word of Jehovah hath been concerning Baasha, and concerning his house, and concerning all the evil that he did in the eyes of Jehovah to provoke Him to anger with the work of his hands, to be like the house of Jeroboam, and concerning that for which he smote him.

8 In the twenty and sixth year of Asa king of Judah reigned hath Elah son of Baasha over Israel in Tirzah, two years;

9 and conspire against him doth his servant Zimri (head of the half of the chariots) and he [is] in Tirzah drinking -- a drunkard in the house of Arza, who [is] over the house in Tirzah.

10 And Zimri cometh in and smiteth him, and putteth him to death, in the twenty and seventh year of Asa king of Judah, and reigneth in his stead;

11 and it cometh to pass in his reigning, at his sitting on his throne, he hath smitten the whole house of Baasha; he hath not left to him any sitting on the wall, and of his redeemers, and of his friends.

12 And Zimri destroyeth the whole house of Baasha, according to the word of Jehovah, that He spake concerning Baasha, by the hand of Jehu the prophet:

13 concerning all the sins of Baasha, and the sins of Elah his son, that they sinned, and that they caused Israel to sin to provoke Jehovah, God of Israel, with their vanities.

14 And the rest of the matters of Elah, and all that he did, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel?

15 In the twenty and seventh year of Asa king of Judah, reigned hath Zimri seven days in Tirzah; and the people are encamping against Gibbethon, which [is] to the Philistines;

16 and the people who are encamping hear, saying, `Zimri hath conspired, and also hath smitten the king;' and all Israel cause Omri head of the host to reign over Israel on that day in the camp.

17 And Omri goeth up, and all Israel with him, from Gibbethon, and they lay siege to Tirzah.

18 And it cometh to pass, at Zimri's seeing that the city hath been captured, that he cometh in unto a high place of the house of the king, and burneth over him the house of the king with fire, and dieth,

19 for his sins that he sinned, to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, to walk in the way of Jeroboam, and in his sin that he did, to cause Israel to sin;

20 and the rest of the matters of Zimri, and his conspiracy that he made, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel?

21 Then are the sons of Israel parted into halves; half of the people hath been after Tibni son of Ginath to cause him to reign, and the half after Omri;

22 and stronger are the people that are after Omri than the people that are after Tibni son of Ginath, and Tibni dieth, and Omri reigneth.

23 In the thirty and first year of Asa king of Judah reigned hath Omri over Israel twelve years; in Tirzah he hath reigned six years,

24 and he buyeth the mount Samaria from Shemer, with two talents of silver, and buildeth [on] the mount, and calleth the name of the city that he hath built by the name of Shemer, lord of the hill -- Samaria.

25 And Omri doth the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, and doth evil above all who [are] before him,

26 and walketh in all the way of Jeroboam son of Nebat, and in his sin that he caused Israel to sin, to provoke Jehovah, God of Israel, with their vanities.

27 And the rest of the matters of Omri that he did, and his might that he got, are they not written on the book of the Chronicles of the kings of Israel?

28 And Omri lieth with his fathers, and is buried in Samaria, and Ahab his son reigneth in his stead.

29 And Ahab son of Omri hath reigned over Israel in the thirty and eighth year of Asa king of Judah, and Ahab son of Omri reigneth over Israel in Samaria twenty and two years,

30 and Ahab son of Omri doth the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah above all who [are] before him.

31 And it cometh to pass -- hath it been light his walking in the sins of Jeroboam son of Nebat? -- then he taketh a wife, Jezebel daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Zidonians, and goeth and serveth Baal, and boweth himself to it,

32 and raiseth up an altar for Baal, in the house of the Baal, that he built in Samaria;

33 and Ahab maketh the shrine, and Ahab addeth to do so as to provoke Jehovah, God of Israel, above all the kings of Israel who have been before him.

34 In his days hath Hiel the Beth-Elite built Jericho; in Abiram his first-born he laid its foundation, and in Segub his youngest he set up its doors, according to the word of Jehovah that He spake by the hand of Joshua son of Nun.

[_The Erotic Apologist]

So, you see Jesus as dead.

Yes, because that's how human physiology works.

You believe that I am misinterpreting.

No, I don't believe you are "misinterpreting". I believe you're spreading lies and falsehoods.

You imagine that Christians cannot ever feel lonely.

Please show me where I claim Christians cannot ever feel lonely.

You believe that Chinese writing cannot reflect very ancient tales that Chinese developing writing were inevitably aware of.

• Christians falsely identify the phonetic element in the ideogram meaning chwan(2) as an indicative element meaning "eight mouths" when in reality it means "divide".
  
• Christians falsely translate the ideogram tu(3) as "clay" when in reality it means dirt or soil.
  
• Christians falsely identify the phonetic root of the ideogram he(2) as meaning "man", "one", and "person" when in reality it means "to unite".
  
• Christians falsely describe the ideogram for she(2) as being composed of elements meaning "mouth" and "one thousand" when in reality it is composed of elements meaning "ten times one hundred".

These are only a few of the misrepresentations that abound in the sites and videos you've linked to. Why do Christians feel they need to lie in order to propagate their beliefs?

You believe that diverse language did not originate at Babel.

No, I don't.

You do not believe that man spread out from there to populate the globe.

No, I don't.

Characters in Chinese writing reflect well over 4500 years of development.

Wrong--Chinese ideograms originated during the late Shang Dynasty.

How likely is it that they never had outside influence in all that time!

Please show me where I claim Chinese ideograms were not affected by outside influence.

They are not a separate species!

Please show me where I claim they are not a "separate species" ...whatever the hell that means.

I believe you to be misguided and very naïve.

So then show me some proof that isn't based on lies and falsehoods.