My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

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_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:About every ten years or so I review my text books so I don't forget the main points in higher math.

Why? You don't need it or use it.

I think you fail to see my stand on science. For me it is a belief system.

You've repeated this self-contradiction a number of times Frank. What on earth are you involved in that leads you to separate yourself from science if not a belief system of your own making?? If science is to be denounced because it is a belief system so should all belief systems including your own. You don't make any sense. You are not consistent.

It is more like this Frank. "I believe in immaterial fairies. Those of a scientific persuasion ridicule my beliefs. Not believing in immaterial fairies is also just a belief. Therefore science is a belief system. My fantasies and science are on an equal footing and are equally grounded in reality."

Yes there are times it produces some devices which make living easier

These are not accidents Frank. These devices are made possible because the laws that science discovers are correct otherwise these devices would not work.

For me the people buried in science and religion are the same. They wish to control the thinking of all men.

Which is why you review your math every few years or so?? So you can detect when it is being used as this is a tell that someone is trying to control your thinking?

Frank is just bummed that the facts of science rein in his imaginary fantasies. He puts so much energy into their creation and expansion just to have them clipped and trimmed by the facts of science that he is really getting very pouty faced now.

To actually think for yourself is not allowed.

Oh of course it is as your very existence proves. You are free to walk off a cliff and disprove the law of gravity Frank. The law is just another case of the scientific establishment trying to control your thinking.

For me I don't think man will advance to a greater society until we break these chains and have respect for each other.

I am picturing Frank holding a sign in public that reads, "Have respect for those who walk off cliffs."

I have no problem with you embracing science. But you have a problem with me not embracing it.

Not so, please feel free to walk off a cliff.

These systems we create are born of ego and a weak mind.

Yeah ok. You go and invent the calculus instead of reading it from a book, then I'll believe you have something other than a weak mind.

We make systems that assume that people are not equal.

So you are as strong as Arnold Schwarzenegger? What you are not equal?? Is Arnold as strong now as he was in his youth? What? He isn't equal through all time? What a wacky "assumption" that people are not equal! According to Frank people should be like the contents of a can of Pringles.

Our systems divide and do not unite.

Unlike Frank, who has brought about a great unity of mankind,... oh wait.

But a day will come when all of these systems will go away and mankind will slowly turn away from inequality. A day will come in which all men will have joy and free will will be the guiding principle.

That's the day of tyranny Frank. It's the day that you are free to steal from another because they have something you don't and there are no laws to restrain your free will.

But until that day comes I will use my free will as I see fit. This may not sit well with others but that is their problem not mine.

Don't get caught by the law Frank. "Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do when they come for you..."
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Maksutov
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Maksutov »

spotlight wrote:
Franktalk wrote:
I agree. It is religion that stands in the way. Maybe science would fix itself if religion was not so powerful. All of our systems on the earth are filled with men who for the most part have accepted the tenets of religion. But what do you replace religion with? Naturalism is a tenet of science. People would be jumping from the pan into the fire. I think people need to know that they don't need any of these belief systems. There is nothing wrong with saying I don't know. But science overreaches as well as religion. Knowing man if religion was removed men would use science the same way they use religion today. People need to wake up and realize they don't need a God whether that God be in a religious book or a science book. Science should be viewed as a tool to obtain knowledge not a belief system.


Um, it isn't a belief system Frank. It just appears to be to you because you are so far out there in an imagined unevidenced "reality" of your own construction.


Spotlight, I wonder if Frank is an incarnation of Francis Schaeffer, the late evangelical scholar and presuppositionalist? There are many points of contact. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_LittleNipper
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _LittleNipper »

I believe that science is a good thing when it sticks to the observable and repeatable. The problem comes when "science" is applied in ignorance of GOD to enhance secular thought by people with a vendetta against the supernatural.
_Maksutov
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:I believe that science is a good thing when it sticks to the observable and repeatable. The problem comes when "science" is applied in ignorance of GOD to enhance secular thought by people with a vendetta against the supernatural.


"Vendetta against the supernatural." That's a pretty good synonym for science, and civilization in general. Do I have to wear a Guy Fawkes mask? :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

I believe that science is a good thing when it sticks to the observable and repeatable.

Do you?

Human chromosome 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

Observable, check.

Repeatable?

http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news124
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask229

Repeatable, check.

Do religious believers stick with the observable and repeatable? Double standard much?

The problem comes when "science" is applied in ignorance of GOD to enhance secular thought by people with a vendetta against the supernatural.

The problem comes when a religion is accepted in ignorance of science to enhance religious thought by people with a vendetta against the natural world and the evidence recorded therein.

Yep, makes more sense.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_LittleNipper
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _LittleNipper »

spotlight wrote:
I believe that science is a good thing when it sticks to the observable and repeatable.

Do you?

Human chromosome 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

Observable, check.

Repeatable?

http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news124
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask229

Repeatable, check.

Do religious believers stick with the observable and repeatable? Double standard much?

The problem comes when "science" is applied in ignorance of GOD to enhance secular thought by people with a vendetta against the supernatural.

The problem comes when a religion is accepted in ignorance of science to enhance religious thought by people with a vendetta against the natural world and the evidence recorded therein.

Yep, makes more sense.

All nature reveals GOD! Science cannot deny the obvious and yet is being applied to try to do just that. If one does evil, is he ultimately rewarded with good? If one does good, is he rewarded with evil? These are laws of nature that you cannot change and yet some act as though they don't exist. The evolutionist bases his theory on random chance. Random chance and by design are not compatible.
_Maksutov
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:All nature reveals GOD!


God is Nature. Nature is God. All is Maya. :cool:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper wrote:All nature reveals GOD!

Truth is established with evidence, not by stomping your feet.

ERVs are a part of nature. How do they reveal god? Oh that's right, they are factual evidence that denies god. At least the version that you believe in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7HBMWf ... tml5=False

Religion cannot deny the obvious and yet is being applied to try to do just that.
(fixed it for you)

If one does evil, is he ultimately rewarded with good? If one does good, is he rewarded with evil? These are laws of nature that you cannot change and yet some act as though they don't exist.


Of course you have the advantage here of being able to simply invent periods of existence beyond the grave and then assert that the ledger books are balanced there.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Gunnar
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Gunnar »

Excellent, spotlight! Yet another good reason why the more one learns about scientific reality, the more impossible it becomes for a fully rational person to be both a YEC and honest simultaneously.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
_Franktalk
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Franktalk »

When we go back in time science assumes uniformitarianism so what we see around us we assume is the same as the past. But the past could be filled with many events that did not leave a trace of their occurrence. But science assumes they have enough of the picture to make a story about what happened in the past.

It is a cute story filled with all of the characters which they embrace. Of course they reject as impossible any event outside of their story. No need to ruin a good story by declaring that holes exist in the trace evidence.

For instance let us say some intelligent beings came to the earth at various times to seed the earth. They come, they drop off stuff and leave. How would we know they were here if they did not leave any trace evidence except the seeded lifeforms? Let us also say that the entire universe went through drastic changes in the fabric of space. That also would not leave any trace evidence for us to find.

So when I say science is a belief system I mean that those things not directly observed are believed and can not be proven. Yet scientist will argue until they are blue in the face that the past matches their story. Give me a break.
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