Bible verse by verse

[Guest]

1 Chronicles 21:1-30 Satan enticed and provoked David to number Israel. David said to Joab and to the princes of the people to go, number Israel from Beersheba and including Dan; and to David. Joab answered, though God increased his people a hundred times as many more as they where, where they not all the king's slaves? Why should David require this thing? Why will he be a cause of guiltiness unto Israel?

Nevertheless, the king’s word prevailed against Joab. Joab departed and went throughout all Israel and came to Jerusalem. Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. And they found in all Israel 1100,000 men that drew sword, and of Judah 470,000 men that drew sword.

Among these the Levites and the sons of Benjamin were not counted, for the king’s word was abominable to Joab. God was displeased with this; therefore, he smote Israel. David said unto God, that he had sinned greatly because of what he had done. David asked that David's foolish iniquity be removed.

The LORD spoke unto Gad, David’s seer, saying, "Go and tell David, saying, I offer 3 things: choose one of them and that I will do to David." Gad came to David and said unto him, "The LORD said, choose either of 3 years famine, 3 months of devastating war with Israel's enemies, or else 3 days of illness throughout all the borders of Israel, brought about by the angel of the Lord."

David said unto Gad, "I am in deep trouble; let me fall by the hand of God, for very great are his mercies, but do not let me fall into the hand of man."

So the LORD sent disease upon Israel; and 70,000 men of Israel died. God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it; and as he was in the process, the LORD looked, and stopped and said to the angel that destroyed, "It is enough, stop." And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan, the Jebusite.

David looked up and his eyes and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the sky and the ground, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. David and the elders of Israel, were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces. David prayed, "It was I that commanded the people to be numbered. I have sinned and done this evil indeed. These sheep, what have they done? Bring you hand against me and my father’s house, but not on your people, that they be plagued."

The angel of the LORD told Gad to tell David that David should go up and set up an altar for the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. David did according to the word of Gad, which he had spoken to him in God's name.

And Ornan turned back and saw the angel, and his four sons with him hid themselves. Ornan was threshing wheat. And as David came to Ornan, Ornan looked and saw David and went out of the threshingfloor and bowed himself to David. David said to Ornan, "Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar here to the LORD; charge me full price, that the plague may be stopped from among the people."

And Ornan said to David to take it, letting David do that which is good to him. Omar will even provide the oxen for burnt offerings and the threshing instruments for wood and the wheat for the present ----- free.

King David said to Ornan, "No, but I will buy it for full price, for I will not take that which is yours for the LORD, not even offer burnt offerings without payment." David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight. David built an altar to the LORD and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings and called upon the LORD, and God answered him from above by sending fire (possibly lightning) down upon the altar of burnt offering.

The LORD spoke to the angel, who then put his sword into its sheath. At that time when David saw that the LORD had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan, the Jebusite, he sacrificed there. For the tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering were at that moment in the high place at Gibeon,

David could not go before it to enquire of God, for he feared the sword of the angel of the LORD rekindling another outbreak.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And there standeth up an adversary against Israel, and persuadeth David to number Israel,

2 And David saith unto Joab, and unto the heads of the people, `Go, number Israel from Beer-Sheba even unto Dan, and bring unto me, and I know their number.'

3 And Joab saith, `Jehovah doth add to His people as they are a hundred times; are they not, my lord, O king, all of them to my lord for servants? why doth my lord seek this? why is he for a cause of guilt to Israel?'

4 And the word of the king [is] severe against Joab, and Joab goeth out, and goeth up and down in all Israel, and cometh in to Jerusalem.

5 And Joab giveth the account of the numbering of the people unto David, and all Israel is a thousand thousand and a hundred thousand, each drawing sword, and Judah [is] four hundred and seventy thousand, each drawing sword.

6 And Levi and Benjamin he hath not numbered in their midst, for the word of the king was abominable with Joab.

7 And it is evil in the eyes of God concerning this thing, and He smiteth Israel,

8 and David saith unto God, `I have sinned exceedingly, in that I have done this thing; and now, cause to pass away, I pray Thee, the iniquity of Thy servant, for I have acted very foolishly.'

9 And Jehovah speaketh unto Gad, seer of David, saying:

10 `Go, and thou hast spoken unto David, saying, Thus said Jehovah, Three -- I am stretching out unto thee; choose for thee one of these, and I do [it] to thee.'

11 And Gad cometh in unto David, and saith to him, `Thus said Jehovah, Take for thee --

12 either for three years -- famine, or three months to be consumed from the face of thine adversaries, even the sword of thine enemies to overtake, or three days the sword of Jehovah, even pestilence in the land, and a messenger of Jehovah destroying in all the border of Israel; and now, see; what word do I return to Him who is sending me?'

13 And David saith unto Gad, `I am greatly distressed, let me fall, I pray thee, into the hand of Jehovah, for very many [are] His mercies, and into the hand of man let me not fall.'

14 And Jehovah giveth a pestilence in Israel, and there fall of Israel seventy thousand men,

15 and God sendeth a messenger to Jerusalem to destroy it, and as he is destroying Jehovah hath seen, and is comforted concerning the evil, and saith to the messenger who [is] destroying, `Enough, now, cease thy hand.' And the messenger of Jehovah is standing by the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite,

16 and David lifteth up his eyes, and seeth the messenger of Jehovah standing between the earth and the heavens, and his sword drawn in his hand, stretched out over Jerusalem, and David falleth, and the elders, covered with sackcloth, on their faces.

17 And David saith unto God, `Did not I -- I say to number the people? Yea, I it [is] who have sinned, and done great evil: and these, the flock, what did they? O Jehovah, my God, let, I pray Thee, Thy hand be on me, and on the house of my father, and not on Thy people -- to be plagued.'

18 And the messenger of Jehovah spake unto Gad, saying for David, `Surely David doth go up to raise an altar to Jehovah in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite.'

19 And David goeth up by the word of Gad, that he spake in the name of Jehovah.

20 And Ornan turneth back, and seeth the messenger, and his four sons [are] with him, hiding themselves, and Ornan is threshing wheat.

21 And David cometh in unto Ornan, and Ornan looketh attentively, and seeth David, and goeth out from the threshing-floor, and boweth himself to David -- face to the earth.

22 And David saith unto Ornan, `Give to me the place of the threshing-floor, and I build in it an altar to Jehovah; for full silver give it to me, and the plague is restrained from the people.'

23 And Ornan saith unto David, `Take to thee -- and my lord the king doth that which is good in his eyes: see, I have given the oxen for burnt-offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for a present; the whole I have given.'

24 And king David saith to Ornan, `Nay, for I surely buy for full silver; for I do not lift up that which is thine to Jehovah, so as to offer a burnt-offering without cost.'

25 And David giveth to Ornan for the place shekels of gold [in] weight six hundred;

26 and David buildeth there an altar to Jehovah, and offereth burnt-offerings and peace-offerings, and calleth unto Jehovah, and He answereth him with fire from the heavens on the altar of the burnt-offering.

27 And Jehovah saith to the messenger, and he turneth back his sword unto its sheath.

28 At that time when David seeth that Jehovah hath answered him in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificeth there;

29 and the tabernacle of Jehovah that Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt-offering, [are] at that time in a high place, in Gibeon;

30 and David is not able to go before it to seek God, for he hath been afraid because of the sword of the messenger of Jehovah.

[_ludwigm]

1 Chronicles 21:1-30
1 And there standeth up an adversary against Israel, and persuadeth David to number Israel,
...
7 And it is evil in the eyes of God concerning this thing, and He smiteth Israel,
...
9 And Jehovah speaketh unto Gad, seer of David, saying:
...
14 And Jehovah giveth a pestilence in Israel, and there fall of Israel seventy thousand men,

Undiluted stupidity on the part of god of Israel...

Jehovah should have speak unto Gad a little before the numbering - then Your idiotic god would have spare the pestilence and the falling of Israel's seventy thousand men. This is were the utility of a personal seer...

Love, mercy, forgiveness --- if You were kicked on your face seven times a day, You would pray to the kicker every time after sixth kick...

by the way
standeth persuadeth smiteth giveth th th th (sorry, I can not perform the language style nobody speaks today --- including you)

[Guest]

1 Chronicles 21:1-30
1 And there standeth up an adversary against Israel, and persuadeth David to number Israel,
...
7 And it is evil in the eyes of God concerning this thing, and He smiteth Israel,
...
9 And Jehovah speaketh unto Gad, seer of David, saying:
...
14 And Jehovah giveth a pestilence in Israel, and there fall of Israel seventy thousand men,

Undiluted stupidity on the part of god of Israel...

Jehovah should have speak unto Gad a little before the numbering - then Your idiotic god would have spare the pestilence and the falling of Israel's seventy thousand men. This is were the utility of a personal seer...

Love, mercy, forgiveness --- if You were kicked on your face seven times a day, You would pray to the kicker every time after sixth kick...

by the way
standeth persuadeth smiteth giveth th th th (sorry, I can not perform the language style nobody speaks today --- including you)

Is would seem stupid on the part of the Israelites to always do exactly what they are told not to do. But I guess you never punished your children...

[_ludwigm]

Is would seem stupid on the part of the Israelites to always do exactly what they are told not to do.

Please, mister know-all oracular, quote me (us...) the verse of the most-important-book-of-the-world, which forbids the counting anything --- including the israelites...

But I guess you never punished your children...

In this case, you win. I never ever punished my children - and grandchildren - for counting their fingers or for counting anything.



by the way
Genesis 13:16. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Numbers 1:2. Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
--- and a lot of verse in Numbers 1;3;4

Last but not least...
2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

Got it? Go, number Israel and Judah. God said it. Your stupid cruel inhuman savage god. That god hunted after something to punish his (her, its?) creatures a little later.

[_LittleNipper]

Exodus 30:12
New International Version
"When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.

This was IGNORED!

[_LittleNipper]

1 Chronicles 22:1-19 David said, “Right here at Ornan’s threshing floor is the place where I’ll build the Temple of the Lord and construct the altar for Israel’s burnt offering!” David drafted all the resident aliens in Israel to prepare stone blocks for the Temple. They also manufactured iron into the great quantity of nails needed for the doors in the gates and for the clamps; and they smelted so much bronze that it was too much to weigh. The men of Tyre and Sidon brought great rafts of cedar logs to David.

“Solomon my son is young and innocent,” David said, “The Temple of the Lord must be a marvelous structure, famous and glorious throughout the world." David collected the construction materials before his death. He commanded his son Solomon to build a Temple for the Lord God of Israel.

David wanted to build it himself, but the Lord said not to do it ---- having killed too many men in great wars. God had sais that David's son will be a man of peace, and God will provide him peace with his enemies in the surrounding lands. His name shall be Solomon (meaning “Peaceful”), and God will bring peace and quietness to Israel during his reign. Solomon shall build God's Temple, and he shall be as the Lord's own son. God will cause his sons and his descendants to reign over every generation of Israel.

David encouraged his son, to obey God and listen to him. David had collected several billion dollars worth of gold bullion, millions in silver, and so much iron and bronze that wasn't even weighed. David also gathered timber and stone for the walls. This is at least a starting point. David gathered have many skilled stonemasons and carpenters and craftsmen of every kind. There were expert gold and silver smiths and bronze and iron workers.

David orders all the leaders of Israel to assist his son in this project.

“The Lord your God is with you,” David declared. “He has provided you with peace with the surrounding nations, for I have conquered them in the name of the Lord and for his people. Now work with every fiber of your soul to obey the Lord your God, and you will soon be bringing the Ark and the other holy articles of worship into the Temple of the Lord!”


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And David saith, `This is the house of Jehovah God, and this the altar for burnt-offering for Israel.'

2 And David saith to gather the sojourners who [are] in the land of Israel, and appointeth hewers to hew hewn-stones to build a house of God.

3 And iron in abundance for nails for leaves of the gates, and for couplings, hath David prepared, and brass in abundance -- there is no weighing.

4 And cedar-trees even without number, for the Zidonians and the Tyrians brought in cedar-trees in abundance to David.

5 And David saith, `Solomon my son [is] a youth and tender, and the house to be built to Jehovah [is] to be made exceedingly great, for name and for beauty to all the lands; let me prepare, I pray Thee, for it;' and David prepareth in abundance before his death.

6 And he calleth for Solomon his son, and chargeth him to build a house to Jehovah, God of Israel,

7 and David saith to Solomon his son, `As for me, it hath been with my heart to build a house to the name of Jehovah my God,

8 and the word of Jehovah [is] against me, saying, Blood in abundance thou hast shed, and great wars thou hast made: thou dost not build a house to My name, for much blood thou hast shed to the earth before Me.

9 `Lo, a son is born to thee; he is a man of rest, and I have given rest to him from all his enemies round about, for Solomon is his name, and peace and quietness I give unto Israel in his days;

10 he doth build a house to My name, and he is to Me for a son, and I [am] to him for a father, and I have established the throne of his kingdom over Israel unto the age.

11 `Now, my son, Jehovah is with thee, and thou hast prospered, and hast built the house of Jehovah thy God, as He spake concerning thee.

12 Only, Jehovah give to thee wisdom and understanding, and charge thee concerning Israel, even to keep the law of Jehovah thy God;

13 then thou dost prosper, if thou dost observe to do the statutes and the judgments that Jehovah charged Moses with concerning Israel; be strong and courageous; do not fear, nor be cast down.

14 `And lo, in mine affliction, I have prepared for the house of Jehovah of gold talents a hundred thousand, and of silver a thousand thousand talents; and of brass and of iron there is no weighing, for in abundance it hath been, and wood and stones I have prepared, and to them thou dost add.

15 `And with thee in abundance [are] workmen, hewers and artificers of stone and of wood, and every skilful man for every work.

16 To the gold, to the silver, and to the brass, and to the iron, there is no number; arise and do, and Jehovah is with thee.'

17 And David giveth charge to all heads of Israel to give help to Solomon his son,

18 `Is not Jehovah your God with you? yea, He hath given rest to you round about, for He hath given into my hand the inhabitants of the land, and subdued hath been the land before His people.

19 `Now, give your heart and your soul to seek to Jehovah your God, and rise and build the sanctuary of Jehovah God, to bring in the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, and the holy vessels of God, to the house that is built to the name of Jehovah.'

[_ludwigm]

Exodus 30:12
New International Version
"When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.

This was IGNORED!

Bingo! The counted people should have paid a lot, then no plague...

A little more context (next verse):
Exodus 30:13. This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.

2 Samuel 24:9. And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
The LORD didn't get the half shekel from thirteen hundred thousands counted people. That is, six hundred and fifty thousands shekel... a really big sum. At that time --- according to 2 Kings 7:1 (16,18) --- "a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel"

Why didn't you explain that god was who commanded the census?

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

What kind of god is this? Pay him (her, its) a lot because you are counted?


Fortunately, there is no god.

[_LittleNipper]

David wanted to see what HE had and what HE controlled. And the simple reality is that the people belonged to the Lord and not David. And God could do with them as God wished. David soon realized this... It might be suggested that GOD actually didn't want anyone counted unless He required it and then there was no charge. So the blame is on the ruler wanting the people counted and not on the Lord. The "tax" or "tariff" was to prevent kings from arbitrarily doing exactly what David chose to do and why. Who wants to pay another tax?

[_ludwigm]

David wanted to see what HE had and what HE controlled. And the simple reality is that the people belonged to the Lord and not David. And God could do with them as God wished. David soon realized this... It might be suggested that GOD actually didn't want anyone counted unless He required it and then there was no charge. So the blame is on the ruler wanting the people counted and not on the Lord. The "tax" or "tariff" was to prevent kings from arbitrarily doing exactly what David chose to do and why. Who wants to pay another tax?

1. As you "proved" above, the problem of your acquisitive lord wasn't the counting itself but the arrears of pay.
2. What about 2 Samuel 24:1... god itself said to David: "Go, number Israel and Judah" --- then I will punish you with killing seventy thousand other people, who were irresponsible, who couldn't help it, who where simply counted.

And the simple reality is that the people belonged to the Lord and not David. And God could do with them as God wished.

That is. What a merciful and good behaviour is...

Thank you, I don't need your "simple reality", your simple minded god, and your simple advertising of this crap.

[_LittleNipper]

David wanted to see what HE had and what HE controlled. And the simple reality is that the people belonged to the Lord and not David. And God could do with them as God wished. David soon realized this... It might be suggested that GOD actually didn't want anyone counted unless He required it and then there was no charge. So the blame is on the ruler wanting the people counted and not on the Lord. The "tax" or "tariff" was to prevent kings from arbitrarily doing exactly what David chose to do and why. Who wants to pay another tax?

1. As you "proved" above, the problem of your acquisitive lord wasn't the counting itself but the arrears of pay.
2. What about 2 Samuel 24:1... god itself said to David: "Go, number Israel and Judah" --- then I will punish you with killing seventy thousand other people, who were irresponsible, who couldn't help it, who where simply counted.

And the simple reality is that the people belonged to the Lord and not David. And God could do with them as God wished.

That is. What a merciful and good behaviour is...

Thank you, I don't need your "simple reality", your simple minded god, and your simple advertising of this crap.

Well, I guess the next time a "Hitler" shows up on the scene, you will have no one to blame but yourself!