Bible verse by verse

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_ludwigm
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _ludwigm »

This is not an answer by any definition, even if you write it three more times.

What about 2 Samuel 24:1... god itself said to David: "Go, number Israel and Judah"?

Answer to THIS, please.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

ludwigm wrote:This is not an answer by any definition, even if you write it three more times.

What about 2 Samuel 24:1... god itself said to David: "Go, number Israel and Judah"?

Answer to THIS, please.

Due the sin of the Israelites David was left to act wrongly, and in his chastisement they received their punishment. This example throws light upon God's governing of the world. The pride of David's heart, was his sin in numbering of the people. He thought thereby to appear the more formidable, trusting in human might more than he should have done, even thought he had written so much of trusting in God only. What appears to us harmless, or, at least, but a small offence, may be a great sin in the eye of God, who discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart. Even ungodly men can observe evil and wrong conduct in believers, of which they (in themselves) often remain unconscious.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

1 Chronicles 23:1-32 David was an old, old man, so he stepped down from the throne and appointed Solomon as the new king of Israel. He summoned all the political and religious leaders of Israel for the coronation ceremony. At this time a census was taken of the men of the tribe of Levi who were thirty years or older. The total came to 38,000.

David instructed that 24000 of them will supervise the work at the Temple, 6000 are to be bailiffs and judges, 4000 will be Temple guards, and 4000 will praise the Lord with the musical instruments.
David divided them into three main divisions named after the sons of Levi—the Gershom division, the Kohath division, and the Merari division.
Subdivisions of the Gershom corps were named after his sons Ladan and Shimei. These subdivisions were still further divided into six groups named after the sons of Ladan: Jehiel the leader, Zetham, Joel; and the sons of Shimei[a]—Shelomoth, Haziel, and Haran.

The subclans of Shimei were named after his four sons: Jahath was greatest, Zizah was next, and Jeush and Beriah were combined into a single subclan because neither had many sons.

The division of Kohath was subdivided into four groups named after his sons Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel. Amram was the ancestor of Aaron and Moses. Aaron and his sons were set apart for the holy service of sacrificing the people’s offerings to the Lord. He served the Lord constantly and pronounced blessings in his name at all times. As for Moses, the man of God, his sons, Gershom and Eliezer, were included with the tribe of Levi. Gershom’s sons were led by Shebuel, and Eliezer’s only son, Rehabiah, was the leader of his clan, for he had many children.

The sons of Izhar were led by Shelomith.
The sons of Hebron were led by Jeriah. Amariah was second in command, Jahaziel was third, and Jekameam was fourth.
The sons of Uzziel were led by Micah, and Isshiah was the second in command.
The sons of Merari were Mahli and Mushi. The sons of Mahli were Eleazar and Kish. Eleazar died without any sons, and his daughters were married to their cousins, the sons of Kish. Mushi’s sons were Mahli, Eder, and Jeremoth.

In the census, all the men of Levi who were 20 years old or older were classified under the names of these clans and subclans; and they were all assigned to the ministry of the Temple. This is because David said, “The Lord God of Israel has given us peace, and he will remain in Jerusalem. Now the Levites will no longer need to carry the Tabernacle and its instruments from place to place.”

(This census of the tribe of Levi was one of the last things David did before his death.) The work of the Levites was to assist the priests—the descendants of Aaron—in the sacrifices at the Temple; they also did maintenance work and helped perform the ceremonies of purification. They provided the Bread of the Presence, the flour for the grain offerings, and the wafers made without yeast (either fried or mixed with olive oil); they also checked all the weights and measures. Each morning and evening they stood before the Lord to sing thanks and praise to him. They assisted in the special sacrifices of burnt offerings, the Sabbath sacrifices, the new moon celebrations, and at all the festivals. There were always as many Levites present as were required for every occasion.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And David is old, and satisfied with days, and causeth his son Solomon to reign over Israel,

2 and gathereth all the heads of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites;

3 and the Levites are numbered from a son of thirty years and upward, and their number, by their polls, is of mighty men thirty and eight thousand.

4 Of these to preside over the work of the house of Jehovah [are] twenty and four thousand, and officers and judges six thousand,

5 and four thousand gatekeepers, and four thousand giving praise to Jehovah, `with instruments that I made for praising,' [saith David.]

6 And David distributeth them into courses: Of the sons of Levi: of Gershon, Kohath, and Merari.

7 Of the Gershonite: Laadan and Shimei.

8 Sons of Laadan: the head [is] Jehiel, and Zetham, and Joel, three.

9 Sons of Shimei [are] Shelomith, and Haziel, and Haran, three; these [are] heads of the fathers of Laadan.

10 And sons of Shimei [are] Jahath, Zina, and Jeush, and Beriah; these [are] sons of Shimei, four.

11 And Jahath is the head, and Zizah the second, and Jeush and Beriah have not multiplied sons, and they become the house of a father by one numbering.

12 Sons of Kohath [are] Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel, four.

13 Sons of Amram: Aaron and Moses; and Aaron is separated for his sanctifying the holy of holies, he and his sons -- unto the age, to make perfume before Jehovah, to serve Him, and to bless in His name -- unto the age.

14 As to Moses, the man of God, his sons are called after the tribe of Levi.

15 Sons of Moses: Gershom and Eliezer.

16 Sons of Gershom: Shebuel the head.

17 And sons of Eliezer are Rehabiah the head, and Eliezer had no other sons, and the sons of Rehabiah have multiplied exceedingly.

18 Sons of Izhar: Shelomith the head.

19 Sons of Hebron: Jeriah the head, Amariah the second, Jahaziel the third, and Jekameam the fourth.

20 Sons of Uzziel: Micah the head, and Ishshiah, the second.

21 Sons of Merari: Mahli and Mushi; sons of Mahli: Eleazar and Kish.

22 And Eleazar dieth, and he had no sons, but daughters, and sons of Kish their brethren take them.

23 Sons of Mushi: Mahli, and Eder, and Jerimoth, three.

24 These [are] sons of Levi, by the house of their fathers, heads of the fathers, by their appointments, in the number of names, by their polls, doing the work for the service of the house of Jehovah, from a son of twenty years and upward,

25 for David said, `Jehovah, God of Israel, hath given rest to His people, and He doth tabernacle in Jerusalem unto the age;'

26 and also of the Levites, `None [are] to bear the tabernacle and all its vessels for its service;'

27 for by the last words of David they [took] the number of the sons of Levi from a son of twenty years and upward,

28 for their station [is] at the side of the sons of Aaron, for the service of the house of Jehovah, over the courts, and over the chambers, and over the cleansing of every holy thing, and the work of the service of the house of God,

29 and for the bread of the arrangement, and for fine flour for present, and for the thin unleavened cakes, and for [the work of] the pan, and for that which is fried, and for all [liquid] measure and [solid] measure;

30 and to stand, morning by morning, to give thanks, and to give praise to Jehovah, and so at evening;

31 and for all the burnt-offerings -- burnt-offerings to Jehovah for sabbaths, for new moons, and for appointed seasons, by number, according to the ordinance upon them continually, before Jehovah.

32 And they have kept the charge of the tent of meeting, and the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the sons of Aaron, their brethren, for the service of the house of Jehovah.
_ludwigm
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _ludwigm »

LittleNipper wrote:
ludwigm wrote:This is not an answer by any definition, even if you write it three more times.

What about 2 Samuel 24:1... god itself said to David: "Go, number Israel and Judah"?

Answer to THIS, please.

Due the sin of the Israelites David was left to act wrongly, and in his chastisement they received their punishment. This example throws light upon God's governing of the world. The pride of David's heart, was his sin in numbering of the people. He thought thereby to appear the more formidable, trusting in human might more than he should have done, even thought he had written so much of trusting in God only. What appears to us harmless, or, at least, but a small offence, may be a great sin in the eye of God, who discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart. Even ungodly men can observe evil and wrong conduct in believers, of which they (in themselves) often remain unconscious.

Sorry, man... I don't understand these sentences.
They make no sense for me. Probably I should have learnt a different English.

Did god commanded king David to count his people or didn't he?

If god wants to kill thousands for nothing, then why that whole ballyho with counting?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_ludwigm
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _ludwigm »

LittleNipper wrote:1 Chronicles 23
3 and the Levites are numbered from a son of thirty years and upward
Another census, no half shekels paid then no plague?
Coherent behaviour, I can say.

LittleNipper wrote: Jehiel, Zetham, Joel; Shimei —Shelomoth, Haziel, and Haran. Jahath, Zizah, and Jeush and Beriah

I don't continue.
Names, names again. What are the utility of these lists?
Do - or can - we learn something by reading this blahblah?
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_LittleNipper
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Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

ludwigm wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:1 Chronicles 23
3 and the Levites are numbered from a son of thirty years and upward
Another census, no half shekels paid then no plague?
Coherent behaviour, I can say.

LittleNipper wrote: Jehiel, Zetham, Joel; Shimei —Shelomoth, Haziel, and Haran. Jahath, Zizah, and Jeush and Beriah

I don't continue.
Names, names again. What are the utility of these lists?
Do - or can - we learn something by reading this blahblah?

I would have to say that the Lord is teaching you patience, if nothing else. Just continue to hang in there.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

ludwigm wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:Due the sin of the Israelites David was left to act wrongly, and in his chastisement they received their punishment. This example throws light upon God's governing of the world. The pride of David's heart, was his sin in numbering of the people. He thought thereby to appear the more formidable, trusting in human might more than he should have done, even thought he had written so much of trusting in God only. What appears to us harmless, or, at least, but a small offence, may be a great sin in the eye of God, who discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart. Even ungodly men can observe evil and wrong conduct in believers, of which they (in themselves) often remain unconscious.

Sorry, man... I don't understand these sentences.
They make no sense for me. Probably I should have learnt a different English.

Did god commanded king David to count his people or didn't he?

If god wants to kill thousands for nothing, then why that whole ballyho with counting?

God was upset with the nation of Israel, and allowed David to take the census so that Israel would be also punished on account that they didn't do things in the way, and for the reasons God wanted things done. In this way, God also was able to get king David off his high horse and bring him down to earth. Two birds with one stone.
_ludwigm
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _ludwigm »

LittleNipper wrote:God was upset with the nation of Israel, and allowed David to take the census so that Israel would be also punished


Bear (to the wolf):
- We should beat the rabbit!
Wolf:
- OK.
Both (to bunny):
- Why don't you wear a cap?
They beat him.

Next day...
Bear (to the wolf):
- We should beat the rabbit again!
Wolf:
- OK, what is the cause?
- Anything... We ask him for a cigarette and he will not have filtered one, or not filtered one, or will have none. Any of these can be the cause.
Bear (to bunny):
- Give us a cigarette!
Bunny - showing both type:
- Do you want it with or without filter?
Wolf (to bear):
- You see, this bastard has no cap again!
They beat him.


And the evening and the morning were the third day. (Genesis 1:13)
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

ludwigm wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:God was upset with the nation of Israel, and allowed David to take the census so that Israel would be also punished


Bear (to the wolf):
- We should beat the rabbit!
Wolf:
- OK.
Both (to bunny):
- Why don't you wear a cap?
They beat him.

Next day...
Bear (to the wolf):
- We should beat the rabbit again!
Wolf:
- OK, what is the cause?
- Anything... We ask him for a cigarette and he will not have filtered one, or not filtered one, or will have none. Any of these can be the cause.
Bear (to bunny):
- Give us a cigarette!
Bunny - showing both type:
- Do you want it with or without filter?
Wolf (to bear):
- You see, this bastard has no cap again!
They beat him.


And the evening and the morning were the third day. (Genesis 1:13)

Before Adam and Eve sinned, there was no death or destruction. Genesis 3:7 Then both of them knew things they had never known before. They realized they were naked. So they sewed fig leaves together and made clothes for themselves.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

1 Chronicles 24:1-31 The priests (the descendants of Aaron) were placed into two divisions named after Aaron’s sons, Eleazar and Ithamar.

Nadab and Abihu were also sons of Aaron, but had no children and died before their father. Only Eleazar and Ithamar were left to carry on. David conferred with Zadok, who represented the Eleazar family, and with Ahimelech, who represented the Ithamar family. David divided Aaron’s descendants into many groups to serve at various times. Eleazar’s descendants were divided into 16 groups and Ithamar’s into 8.

All tasks were assigned to the various groups by providence (lot) so that there would be no preference, for there were many famous men and high officials of the Temple in each division. Shemaiah, a Levite and the son of Nethanel, acted as recording scribe and wrote down the names and assignments in the presence of the king and of these leaders: Zadok the priest, Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and the heads of the priests and Levites. Two groups from the division of Eleazar and one from the division of Ithamar were assigned to each task.

The work was assigned by providence in this order:

1, the group led by Jehoiarib;

2, the group led by Jedaiah;

3, the group led by Harim;

4, the group led by Seorim;

5, the group led by Malchijah;

6, the group led by Mijamin;

7, the group led by Hakkoz;

8, the group led by Ahijah;

9, the group led by Jeshua;

10, the group led by Shecaniah;

11, the group led by Eliashib;

12, the group led by Jakim;

13, the group led by Huppah;

14, the group led by Jeshebeab;

15, the group led by Bilgah;

16, the group led by Immer;

17, the group led by Hezir;

18, the group led by Happizzez;

19, the group led by Pethahiah;

20, the group led by Jehezkel;

21, the group led by Jachin;

22, the group led by Gamul;

23, the group led by Delaiah;

24, the group led by Maaziah.

Each group carried out the Temple duties as originally assigned by God through their ancestor Aaron. These were the other descendants of Levi: Amram; his descendant Shubael; and Shubael’s descendant Jehdeiah; the Rehabiah group, led by his oldest son Isshiah; the Izhar group, consisting of Shelamoth and his descendant Jahath. The Hebron group: Jeriah, Hebron’s oldest son; Amariah, his second son; Jahaziel, his third son; Jekameam, his fourth son. The Uzziel group was led by his son Micah and his grandsons Shamir and Isshiah, and by Isshiah’s son Zechariah.

The Merari group was led by his sons: Mahli and Mushi. (Jaaziah’s group, led by his son Beno, included his brothers Shoham, Zaccur, and Ibri.) Mahli’s descendants were Eleazar, who had no sons, and Kish, among whose sons was Jerahmeel. The sons of Mushi were Mahli, Eder, and Jerimoth.

These were the descendants of Levi by family. Like the descendants of Aaron, they were assigned to their duties by lot without distinction as to age or rank. It was done in the presence of King David, Zadok, Ahimelech, and the leaders of the priests and the Levites.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And to the sons of Aaron [are] their courses: sons of Aaron [are] Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar,

2 and Nadab dieth, and Abihu, in the presence of their father, and they had no sons, and Eleazar and Ithamar act as priests.

3 And David distributeth them, and Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, according to their office in their service;

4 and there are found of the sons of Eleazar more for heads of the mighty men than of the sons of Ithamar; and they distribute them: Of the sons of Eleazar, heads for a house of fathers, sixteen; and of the sons of Ithamar, for a house of their fathers, eight.

5 And they distribute them, by lots, one with another, for princes of the sanctuary, and princes of God, have been of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar.

6 And Shemaiah son of Nethaneel the scribe, of the Levites, writeth them before the king and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech son of Abiathar, and heads of the fathers, for priests and for Levites: one house of a father being taken possession of for Eleazar, and one being taken possession of for Ithamar.

7 And the first lot goeth out for Jehoiarib, for Jedaiah the second,

8 for Harim the third, for Seorim the fourth,

9 for Malchijah the fifth, for Mijamin the sixth,

10 for Hakkoz the seventh, for Abijah the eighth,

11 for Jeshuah the ninth, for Shecaniah the tenth,

12 for Eliashib the eleventh, for Jakim the twelfth,

13 for Huppah the thirteenth, for Jeshebeab the fourteenth,

14 for Bilgah the fifteenth, for Immer the sixteenth,

15 for Hezir the seventeenth, for Aphses the eighteenth,

16 for Pethahiah the nineteenth, for Jehezekel the twentieth,

17 for Jachin the one and twentieth, for Gamul the two and twentieth,

18 for Delaiah the three and twentieth, for Maaziah the four and twentieth.

19 These [are] their appointments for their service, to come in to the house of Jehovah, according to their ordinance by the hand of Aaron their father, as Jehovah God of Israel, commanded them.

20 And for the sons of Levi who are left: for sons of Amram, Shubael; for sons of Shubael: Jehdeiah.

21 For Rehabiah: for sons of Rehabiah, the head Ishshiah.

22 For the Izharite: Shelomoth; for sons of Shelomoth: Jahath.

23 And sons of Jeriah: Amariah the second, Jahaziel the third, Jekameam the fourth.

24 Sons of Uzziel: Michah; for sons of Michah: Shamir.

25 A brother of Michah [is] Ishshiah; for sons of Ishshiah: Zechariah;

26 sons of Merari: Mahli and Mushi; sons of Jaaziah: Beno;

27 sons of Merari: of Jaaziah: Beno, and Shoham, and Zaccur, and Ibri.

28 For Mahli: Eleazar, who had no sons;

29 for Kish: sons of Kish: Jerahmeel.

30 And sons of Mushi [are] Mahli, and Eder, and Jerimoth; these [are] sons of the Levites, for the house of their fathers,

31 and they cast, they also, lots over-against their brethren the sons of Aaron, before David the king, and Zadok, and Ahimelech, and heads of the fathers, for priests and for Levites; the chief father over-against his younger brother.
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