For former Mormons who became atheists

[_subgenius]

Nietzsche wrote a book titled "Beyond Good and Evil" ...and ultimately that which is beyond good and evil is Love.

The fact that you would quote Nietzche is ironic. You clearly don't understand him, or his philosophy.

His humanism notwithstanding he approaches the topic very well. And where we may disagree on the form of what is beyond good and evil we agree on its premise...and we agree on the level of person that adheres to the ideas of "good" and "evil" as you have been so feverishly trying to impose upon the book of Job and others - when in fact, it is all just of your own design and thus appropriately subject to your own criticism...and yours alone.

I would suggest that you re-read (or obviously, just 'read') section 52 of his book....it may enable you to develop beyond your seemingly "statesman" position to a more Noble one (discern those little Nietzsche tidbits my friend).

[_Res Ipsa]

His humanism notwithstanding he approaches the topic very well. And where we may disagree on the form of what is beyond good and evil we agree on its premise...and we agree on the level of person that adheres to the ideas of "good" and "evil" as you have been so feverishly trying to impose upon the book of Job and others - when in fact, it is all just of your own design and thus appropriately subject to your own criticism...and yours alone.

I would suggest that you re-read (or obviously, just 'read') section 52 of his book....it may enable you to develop beyond your seemingly "statesman" position to a more Noble one (discern those little Nietzsche tidbits my friend).

Here's Section 52:

52. In the Jewish "Old Testament," the book of divine justice, there are men, things, and sayings on such an immense scale, that Greek and Indian literature has nothing to compare with it. One stands with fear and reverence before those stupendous remains of what man was formerly, and one has sad thoughts about old Asia and its little out-pushed peninsula Europe, which would like, by all means, to figure before Asia as the "Progress of Mankind." To be sure, he who is himself only a slender, tame house-animal, and knows only the wants of a house-animal (like our cultured people of today, including the Christians of "cultured" Christianity), need neither be amazed nor even sad amid those ruins—the taste for the Old Testament is a touchstone with respect to "great" and "small": perhaps he will find that the New Testament, the book of grace, still appeals more to his heart (there is much of the odour of the genuine, tender, stupid beadsman and petty soul in it). To have bound up this New Testament (a kind of ROCOCO of taste in every respect) along with the Old Testament into one book, as the "Bible," as "The Book in Itself," is perhaps the greatest audacity and "sin against the Spirit" which literary Europe has upon its conscience.

How does this section relate to your point?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

His humanism notwithstanding he approaches the topic very well. And where we may disagree on the form of what is beyond good and evil we agree on its premise...and we agree on the level of person that adheres to the ideas of "good" and "evil" as you have been so feverishly trying to impose upon the book of Job and others - when in fact, it is all just of your own design and thus appropriately subject to your own criticism...and yours alone.

I would suggest that you re-read (or obviously, just 'read') section 52 of his book....it may enable you to develop beyond your seemingly "statesman" position to a more Noble one (discern those little Nietzsche tidbits my friend).

What you fail to understand is your ideology, especially as exemplified by the Book of Job only affirms the contradiction between the affirmation of an all-powerful God’s existence and the futility, meaningless, and/or difficulty of human life. Job's life, and that of his children, weren't dependent on obedience to any universal laws, but rather the demented and irrational whimsy of a god who wanted a morality play.

It's Job's suffering that underscores the point that there is no point, and it was Job, not your god, that chose to give meaning to his life, and to proceed forward understanding that there was no rhyme or reason to what was happening to him. Whether Job continued to glorify your twisted god is moot. It is Job who surpasses your god in righteousness and exemplary behavior. Epicurus was proven correct, that your god isn't worthy of worship. It was a human being.

You unwittingly just demonstrated that it is existentialism that is the highest form of human behavior, choosing to forge meaning from a meaningless existence.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_subgenius]

God is subject to the Law, in other words God can not lie...can not be unjust, etc...

Again, for clarification, what is this "Law" that God is subject to? Can we look it up?

You sure can look it up

[_Res Ipsa]

There's lots of stuff in those books. So, is god "subject" to everything written in those books? And what it does it mean to be "subject" to them? Does it mean he literally cannot do anything that would contradict them?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is from the Bible.

CFR

V/R
Dr. Cam

umm...not the subject of the preposition....typical atheist.

even though being snarky alludes to it - if you do not know then just say so....there is no shame in saying you buy into the baseless atheist memes as your primary source for scripture information.

Just wondering which chapter(s) and verse(s) in the Bible notes that light was created and then the source of that light was created after.....

- Sub-Genius

------

Hoo-boy. If hypocrisy were a stock I'd buy Sub-Genius now...

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_subgenius]

There's lots of stuff in those books. So, is god "subject" to everything written in those books? And what it does it mean to be "subject" to them? Does it mean he literally cannot do anything that would contradict them?

if i remember correctly, you asked me where to find the Law that i mentioned prior...i have now given you that "where".

additionally, i gave a few examples about what it means to be subject to the Law
repeated here for your convenience
God can not lie
God can not be unjust

If you are unaware of the simple theological concept of the Law, then you should excuse yourself from the grown-up conversation as you are wholly out of your league on the discussion. (and likely can not just wing-it by parsing through posts looking for quips)

[_Res Ipsa]

if i remember correctly, you asked me where to find the Law that i mentioned prior...i have now given you that "where".

additionally, i gave a few examples about what it means to be subject to the Law
repeated here for your convenience
God can not lie
God can not be unjust

If you are unaware of the simple theological concept of the Law, then you should excuse yourself from the grown-up conversation as you are wholly out of your league on the discussion. (and likely can not just wing-it by parsing through posts looking for quips)

Yes, you pointed to me toward four books comprising thousands of pages. I asked a simple question for clarification: is everything written in those four books the "Law" you referred to? Why are you unwilling to answer?

You made two assertions about God being subject to the Law -- you explained nothing. If God chose to lie out of love -- just as he can kill one's entire family out of love -- what is it that stops him from actually lying? And if God is powerless to violate this law, who or what imposes it on him?

[_LittleNipper]

There's lots of stuff in those books. So, is god "subject" to everything written in those books? And what it does it mean to be "subject" to them? Does it mean he literally cannot do anything that would contradict them?

God will do nothing that contradicts HIS Holy Word found in the Bible. God will do things that may contradict that which God is not the author of.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

There's lots of stuff in those books. So, is god "subject" to everything written in those books? And what it does it mean to be "subject" to them? Does it mean he literally cannot do anything that would contradict them?

God will do nothing that contradicts HIS Holy Word found in the Bible. God will do things that may contradict that which God is not the author of.

Your god said he created evil, and is responsible for all calamities.

Why in the world would you worship something like that?

V/R
Dr. Cam