River Sidon War and Book of Mormon Blooper

[Shulem]

Let’s recap and see what else we can dig up in proving the Book of Mormon narrative does not describe a *realistic account for a battle.

DAY ONE

2:17 And they began to slay the Amlicites upon the hill east of Sidon
2:18 they slew the Amlicites with great slaughter, that they began to flee
2:19 Nephites did pursue the Amlicites all that day
2:19 there were slain of the Amlicites twelve thousand five hundred thirty and two
2:20 Alma could pursue the Amlicites no longer
2:20 pitch their tents in the valley of Gideon...for the night
2:21 Alma sent spies to follow the remnant of the Amlicites
2:22 to watch the camp of the Amlicites

DAY TWO

2:23 on the morrow they returned into the camp of the Nephites
2:26 people of Nephi took their tents, and departed out of the valley of Gideon

*ANALYSIS

After the battle took place at hill Amnihu, the Nephites pursued the fleeing Almicites all that day and then pitched their tents in the valley of Gideon at nighfall. We are informed that 12,532 Amlicites were killed in the battle. We are also informed that Alma had lost 6,562 of his own troops at the battle of Amnihu. We may reasonable assume that Nephite casualties were determined based on a reduction of a live head count in troop formation through a roll-call. The Nephites had been tracking the Almicites all that day and nightfall was now upon them. Thus, a physical body count of corpses would have to wait till morning whereby they would have to BACKTRACK from Gideon to Amnihu in order to count bodies. That hardly seems reasonable given the circumstances. But what seems even more unreasonable is how and when the bodies of the Amlicites were counted at Amnihu? At what hour(s) on DAY ONE did Alma have time to count dead Amlicites? Or why and when would Alma send men back to Amnihu on DAY TWO to count 12,532 dead Amlicites?

The whole thing is simply ridiculous! It’s a blooper!

[Shulem]

In the final analysis, it’s reasonable to conclude that based on the reading and how the story unfolds, the Amlicite body count must have taken place at the hill Amnihu on DAY ONE before Alma arrived at the valley of Gideon to make camp for the night. The account says the “Nephites did pursue the Amlicites all that day” which means the battle that took place at hill Amnihu lasted only a portion of that day and the pursuit and settling into the valley of Gideon lasted the better part of the day.

Although the story says nothing about leaving troops behind, it would have been necessary for Alma to leave men behind to take body counts, tally the dead, and attend to the wounded. That certainly sounds reasonable considering at that point the Nephites had the upper hand and control of the battlefield between the hill and the valley. But what’s not reasonable is the effort and waste of time in counting the enemies strewn and scattered about. Retrieving weapons and capturing supplies would have been worthwhile but having to keep track of an exact number of corpses is unnecessary and could cause confusion and slow down progress in trying to maintain order in an abandoned battlefield filled with dead and wounded.

Therefore, the story rings untrue to me and I find it difficult to accept that in real life circumstances this kind of thing would have taken place. I feel that Smith fudged a number to dress his story and it’s a clear indicator to me that Smith’s storytelling is not grounded in reality. Believers can think what they want but I find the story to be ridiculous as so many other stories in the Book of Mormon.

[Shulem]

Here are the fallen dead that Alma claimed were counted:

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[Physics Guy]

No, see, there's this amazing numerological significance to 12,532. Hebrew letters were also used as numerals, so all Hebrew words have numerical values, and 12,532 is exactly the numerical value of these six different Hebrew words that would have been perfect commentaries on this battle and how could Joseph have known?

[huckelberry]

Shulem, "@@@@etc"

bored? nothing to do today?

afraid we missed your point?

[Moksha]

Shulem, "@@@@etc"

bored? nothing to do today?

afraid we missed your point?

Given he is talking about the LDS Church, the point may have been obscured if he used the $ sign.

[Shulem]

Shulem, "@@@@etc"

bored? nothing to do today?

afraid we missed your point?

Sigh.

I thought it appropriate to visualize the quantity tallied by designated footmen who were tasked with counting the total number of dead Amlicites strewn about on the sprawling landscape. It seems rather daunting, wouldn’t you say? There were not many hours to get the job done and how they divided the battlefield and how many people took count is anyone’s guess because Alma didn’t say. This hole in the script sticks in my craw and makes me want to question everything.

I think this has been a fruitful exercise in examining questionable material that is based on fiction and authored by someone who knows very little about how wars were actually fought in ancient times other than what’s in the Bible. I would think that Joseph Smith assumed their swords were the same kind of swords (Alma 2:12) used in the Bible, weapons of war, of every kind. The narrative leads us to conclude that bodies were left to rot at hill Amnihu because there simply were not enough hours in the day to bury that many people prior to the next battle in crossing river Sidon.

[Shulem]

I feel an important point has been made about dumping bodies in the river Sidon based on the assumption that they would be carried off to sea where they would be out of sight and out of mind. The thought of thousands of bodies being dumped in fresh water where they would rot is not helpful to anyone who depends on the bounty of the river. Clean water and reliable resources are essential to good living. Therefore, Alma makes it clear that the bodies haven’t far to float before they reach the sea.

But there was no Alma and the story is made-up by someone looking at a map and plotting the whole saga in which it took place, at Delmarva. I’m afraid this is a real problem for those trying to locate the river Sidon in Mesoamerica or interpret the Mississippi as the river that led to the sea. If you look at the map you will see that the Pokomoke river is a perfect fit.

[Shulem]

The Delmarva model just keeps making more and more sense the more you put the pieces together, Paul. You should write and publish a book.

Thank you for a vote of confidence and your amazing support in the presentation of my findings. I’m afraid that until such time as others see through the mist and are able to plot the map for themselves, I remain sidelined from moving the ball forward. The game is over.

It’s a shame.

[huckelberry]

shulem, it is nice that you made blocks of one hundred for counting. I see you actually made an accurate repeat of that number. One would figure counting dead would not be laid out is such helpfully even blocks.

Actually I think your observation about the river and the sea is interesting support of your map idea.