WHO or WHICH is most important?

[Shulem]

Psalm 22 Predicted the way Christ was to be Crucified and tormented

Well, no it doesn't just because you make a claim. You have to demonstrate that with evidence. And merely citing New Testament authors is not evidence, because obviously they had the text of Psalm 22 available to them. Moreover, the text many obviously metaphorical elements and could just as easily be applied to a lot of persecutions, including the Holocaust.

I noticed you didn't answer my questions, so I'll ask again:

1. Why is the subject asking God to "save my soul from the sword"? (v 21). How does this apply to Jesus?
2. The subject says, "My God, I call out by day and You do not reply, and at night I do not keep silent." (v 3). How does this apply to Jesus?

Mind you, both of these occur after the statement about being "forsaken" in verse 2. (Cf Mark 15:34 right before Jesus is said to have died.)

The details belie any sort of clean fit with the crucifixion narrative.

Thank you for that!

The early Christian writers stole David’s woes and likened them to a suffering Jesus in an attempt to associate those sayings© to the crucifixion a thousand years into the future! It’s a form of piracy -- thievery of a man’s sacred prayers. It’s not about the crucifixion and death of futuristic Jesus but concerns David who begs God to save him from the sword and spare his life. It has nothing to do with Jesus’s sacrifice! Further, David’s supplications and sufferings continued into the night hours which contradicts Christ’s death on the cross at 3PM.

So, the idea that the Holy Spirit® is prophesying through David is a complete no-go.

...The Christian interpretation is those themes—among others—converge in Jesus as the Messiah.

Yes, it was branded religious™ interpretation and the reinvention of concepts in order to make them fit a new narrative. Hence the birth of Christianity used Old Testament concepts to fit into the New Testament religion.

Joseph Smith took it to a higher level in which Book of Mormon© prophets graphically and clearly described the crucifixion and predicted the actual date it would occur! They were seers (see-ers), thus they *saw* the future and described it perfectly.

On the other hand, Old Testament verses said to symbolize Christ are convoluted and watered down versions compared to Book of Mormon prophecies which are far superior and define events with exactness. Now you will agree that’s ironic. Ha ha.

[LittleNipper]

Psalm 22 Predicted the way Christ was to be Crucified and tormented

Well, no it doesn't just because you make a claim. You have to demonstrate that with evidence. And merely citing New Testament authors is not evidence, because obviously they had the text of Psalm 22 available to them. Moreover, the text many obviously metaphorical elements and could just as easily be applied to a lot of persecutions, including the Holocaust.

I noticed you didn't answer my questions, so I'll ask again:

1. Why is the subject asking God to "save my soul from the sword"? (v 21). How does this apply to Jesus?

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

2. The subject says, "My God, I call out by day and You do not reply, and at night I do not keep silent." (v 3). How does this apply to Jesus?

Mind you, both of these occur after the statement about being "forsaken" in verse 2. (Cf Mark 15:34 right before Jesus is said to have died.)

The details belie any sort of clean fit with the crucifixion narrative.

The FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT abhor sin and cannot look upon it. Jesus being all man and yet all GOD had a different construct. HE had a human body. When Jesus went to the cross willingly (though not looking forward to the suffering) HE allowed HIMSELF to be Crucified. Man couldn't have accomplished it without Christ allowing this to occur. The night of HIS capture before HIS crucifixion HE willingly spilled HIS guts out to HIS FATHER concerning HIS apprehension of what was going to happen to HIM...

[Shulem]

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

1) Deliver his life: Life is spared and death is thwarted. This applies to King David, NOT to Jesus!
2) Metaphorical: Religionists love to twist and distort a comparison between two entirely different things.

King David begs God to spare his life from all forms of death so that he may continue his administration as King of Israel:

22:20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
22:21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

David was delivered and rescued and lived to the ripe age of 70.

End of story.

[bill4long]

Joseph Smith took it to a higher level in which Book of Mormon© prophets graphically and clearly described the crucifixion and predicted the actual date it would occur! They were seers (see-ers), thus they *saw* the future and described it perfectly.

On the other hand, Old Testament verses said to symbolize Christ are convoluted and watered down versions compared to Book of Mormon prophecies which are far superior and define events with exactness. Now you will agree that’s ironic. Ha ha.

Prophecy after-the-fact is simply amazing.

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented, hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

So you acknowledge your take is merely a metaphorical interpretation and not a literal factual match. Got it.

[Shulem]

So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.

The Christian founders took words from the Bible and dressed them up to meet their own agenda and literally perverted the original intent and meaning of Old Testament prayers offered by the King of Israel. It’s somewhat similar to what Joseph Smith did with Facsimile No. 3 in making up stories for the Book of Abraham -- he chopped off the snout and headdress of the god Anubis in order to make him his ideal slave. The Christians hacked David in order to promote their idea of the Messiah in whom they claimed would be coming back very soon and establish his kingdom.

LittleNipper reminds me of a Mormon apologist attempting to defend the Book of Abraham. Same thing, different book.

Repent, LittleNipper. Repent!

[bill4long]

So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.

The Christian founders took words from the Bible and dressed them up to meet their own agenda and literally perverted the original intent and meaning of Old Testament prayers offered by the King of Israel. It’s somewhat similar to what Joseph Smith did with Facsimile No. 3 in making up stories for the Book of Abraham -- he chopped off the snout and headdress of the god Anubis in order to make him his ideal slave. The Christians hacked David in order to promote their idea of the Messiah in whom they claimed would be coming back very soon and establish his kingdom.

LittleNipper reminds me of a Mormon apologist attempting to defend the Book of Abraham. Same thing, different book.

Repent, LittleNipper. Repent!

Metaphorical interpretation is the stock-in-trade of religious con men. (And women.) Their victims see what they want to see.

[Limnor]

On the other hand, Old Testament verses said to symbolize Christ are convoluted and watered down versions compared to Book of Mormon prophecies which are far superior and define events with exactness. Now you will agree that’s ironic. Ha ha.

Yes I will lol

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented, hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

So you acknowledge your take is merely a metaphorical interpretation and not a literal factual match. Got it.

I’ve been fascinated by a possible dual-fulfillment interpretation, not limited to metaphor.

In that view, David or Isaiah describe events happening to them, or about to happen to them. But at the same time pointing to a telescoped fulfillment in Christ. So psalm 22 has application to both David and Jesus.

I’ve thought maybe the “almah” from Isaiah 14:7 has a dual meaning—first fulfilled relatively soon following the prophecy by the birth of Maher-shalal-hash-baz through a young woman and ultimately by Christ through the virgin.

The concept can be applied to Isaiah 53 as well. I’ve even wondered if maybe Isaiah was put to death and brought back. Purely speculative and unsupported, but interesting in light of the idea of deutero-Isaiah.

[LittleNipper]

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented, hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

So you acknowledge your take is merely a metaphorical interpretation and not a literal factual match. Got it.

I take the view that David was speaking metaphorically of himself, BUT GOD meant it prophetically as to what would happen to Jesus Christ.
You believe what you wish; however, have you prayed about your opinion, or just "feel" that way?

In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.

1) Deliver his life: Life is spared and death is thwarted. This applies to King David, NOT to Jesus!
2) Metaphorical: Religionists love to twist and distort a comparison between two entirely different things.

King David begs God to spare his life from all forms of death so that he may continue his administration as King of Israel:

22:20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
22:21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

David was delivered and rescued and lived to the ripe age of 70.

End of story.

The REALITY is that the word of GOD can have multiple meanings. And ALL of them can be entirely correct. The Bible (unlike all other books) is the LIVING WORD OF GOD.

[Shulem]

1) Deliver his life: Life is spared and death is thwarted. This applies to King David, NOT to Jesus!
2) Metaphorical: Religionists love to twist and distort a comparison between two entirely different things.

King David begs God to spare his life from all forms of death so that he may continue his administration as King of Israel:

22:20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
22:21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

David was delivered and rescued and lived to the ripe age of 70.

End of story.

The REALITY is that the word of GOD can have multiple meanings. And ALL of them can be entirely correct. The Bible is (unlike all other books) is the LIVING WORD OF GOD.

NO! Reality has become the interpretation of religionists playing God to satisfy their faithful imaginations.

For example, Ps. 22:16:

1) Propoganda:
“they [animalistic enemies] pierced [crucified] my hands and my feet.”

2) Reality:
“they [animalistic enemies] are at my hands and my feet.”

This has absolutely nothing to do with the crucifixion of Jesus that would take place a thousand years in the future. David did not present himself as a type for a suffering Messiah being symbolically crucified. What about St Paul (1 Cor 1:13), was he crucified for you too?

[Limnor]

I’d recommend reading Psalm 22 alongside the Dead Sea Scroll evidence and Zechariah 12:10. I don’t think it definitively answers all objections but it may lend additional context to the issue.