spotlight wrote:So your argument depends upon basically believing it in the first place before you can interpret anything to be evidence for it. How convenient Frank. You have to begin with the conclusion and align the evidence in a way that agrees with your conclusion. Whatever spin is necessary huh? And then if something contradicts your world view anyhow you simply ignore it and perhaps decide that even though it contradicts your world view it is because it was designed that way so that we can exercise our free agency to choose.
Well thanks for admitting that you are completely lost in a solipsistic fantasy that is without evidence. Then you have the hypocrisy to declare that anyone who comes to any conclusion about reality other than the one that you have arrived at is being fed back the idols of their hearts. So you took your journey without any desire I guess? That's odd because wanting to know the truth seems to be a common factor in the search of all people. Is it not just a bit arrogant of you to decide that you alone are sincere in your quest Frank?
Before I asked you for evidence and you said that you had it, just that it was not evidence that I would accept. Then you said that there can be no proof otherwise we lose our agency to choose. So which is it Frank? Evidence or no evidence? You constantly contradict yourself. Is self contradiction a sign of being on the correct path in your world view?
Nice rant. Personal knowledge is as solid as it gets. But obviously means nothing to anyone who does not experience it.
spotlight wrote: So your tidy little excuse is wrong. And I am not stuck on simulations. You don't understand apparently that your argument depends on a simulation hypothesis to even be a possibility. There is no way any reality can be inconsistent and remain in any sense real. I believe that line of reasoning even exists in the Book of Mormon.
It is my belief that reality exist is three layers. Each of them is real. Think of them as a multiverse.
The idea is not new. Even predicted in some models. What I have discovered is the intellect that populates these layers of reality. I do not see why you have a hard time with this view since part of it is already part of scientific thought.
Franktalk wrote:Nice rant. Personal knowledge is as solid as it gets. But obviously means nothing to anyone who does not experience it.
I'd be happy to experience it but so far all you have done is make up excuses as to why I can't have this experience none of which have been accurate. So maybe your personal knowledge is a bit suspect at best seeing how you think you know where I am coming from but are consistently off the mark.
So Frank you asked me once why it did not bother me that scientists disagree with one another about things on the fringes of knowledge and here you accept a way of knowing truth where hardly anyone agrees with anyone else on the basics. That does not bother you? Because you are right and they are wrong? Is it not more likely that you each have personal experiences and there is no consistency in personal experiences because they do not reflect anything real?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
spotlight wrote:So your argument depends upon basically believing it in the first place before you can interpret anything to be evidence for it. How convenient Frank. You have to begin with the conclusion and align the evidence in a way that agrees with your conclusion. Whatever spin is necessary huh? And then if something contradicts your world view anyhow you simply ignore it and perhaps decide that even though it contradicts your world view it is because it was designed that way so that we can exercise our free agency to choose.
Well thanks for admitting that you are completely lost in a solipsistic fantasy that is without evidence. Then you have the hypocrisy to declare that anyone who comes to any conclusion about reality other than the one that you have arrived at is being fed back the idols of their hearts. So you took your journey without any desire I guess? That's odd because wanting to know the truth seems to be a common factor in the search of all people. Is it not just a bit arrogant of you to decide that you alone are sincere in your quest Frank?
Before I asked you for evidence and you said that you had it, just that it was not evidence that I would accept. Then you said that there can be no proof otherwise we lose our agency to choose. So which is it Frank? Evidence or no evidence? You constantly contradict yourself. Is self contradiction a sign of being on the correct path in your world view?
Nice rant. Personal knowledge is as solid as it gets. But obviously means nothing to anyone who does not experience it.
Franktalk wrote:It is my belief that reality exist is three layers. Each of them is real. Think of them as a multiverse. The idea is not new. Even predicted in some models. What I have discovered is the intellect that populates these layers of reality. I do not see why you have a hard time with this view since part of it is already part of scientific thought.
And I gave you a reason why your viewpoint fails that you have failed to address or explain. You walked away from the challenge to do so with a comment about chilling and enjoying my weekend. So are you going to explain the mystery now? Do I need to repost my previous post that you dodged?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
Yes, he doesn't say. Makes one wonder why it is he bothers to post at all on a discussion forum when he refuses to support his position with any reasoning, evidence, or self consistent discussion of any kind. He just makes assertions he pulls from the nether regions and tells those who question him why their motives must be inferior to his in seeking truth since they arrived somewhere other than where he ended up.
On top of it all he sees himself as the only sufficiently humble, brokenhearted and contrite individual on the planet. Quite the arrogant viewpoint. Arrogance seems to correlate strongly with ignorance, eh?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
spotlight wrote:So Frank you asked me once why it did not bother me that scientists disagree with one another about things on the fringes of knowledge and here you accept a way of knowing truth where hardly anyone agrees with anyone else on the basics. That does not bother you? Because you are right and they are wrong? Is it not more likely that you each have personal experiences and there is no consistency in personal experiences because they do not reflect anything real?
I have explained why it is that most personal experiences are a reflection of their idols. Very few personal experiences actually deal with real truth. This is why it is so easy to dismiss.
If we come here for the experience and we get lost in this physical world it only enhances the experience. However, there is a plan for the whole group and in time the plan will unfold. But along the way people are free to wander where they wish. So it takes a billion years and many probations. It is still a collection of experiences. Don't worry Spotlight, there is no judgement. There is no way any mindset is required, or belief system. It will all work out in the end. It always has and always will.
Franktalk wrote:I have explained why it is that most personal experiences are a reflection of their idols. Very few personal experiences actually deal with real truth. This is why it is so easy to dismiss.
And what way is there to distinguish the fake from the real? And how do you determine that any are real?
If we come here for the experience...
How do you know this?
However, there is a plan for the whole group and in time the plan will unfold. But along the way people are free to wander where they wish. So it takes a billion years and many probations. It is still a collection of experiences.
Or this?
Don't worry Spotlight, there is no judgement.
Why would I worry over your delusions?
There is no way any mindset is required, or belief system. It will all work out in the end. It always has and always will.
How do you know this?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
spotlight wrote:And what way is there to distinguish the fake from the real? And how do you determine that any are real?
That is a good question. The mind is easily deceived. For one thing what came to me over time as interpretation of the scriptures I did not want. The information was so far off from what the majority of people believe, it just seemed weird. So what I received was not a confirmation. Over time and more information the whole set of information started to make sense. It explained so much about people and why we do what we do.
I did not expect it but I did meet a few others that took the same journey and they also received the same information. In a way this was conformation of what I received. The chances that a small group of people would draw these same ideas independent of each other is pretty remote. The other common item was the method of the journey and the complete abandonment of this world. But of course without the personal experience even this to the outside world means nothing. There is nothing to observe. There is nothing to test. One can not go on an inward journey as a test. The very idea that it is a test destroys the attempt.
This access to truth is not made to be discovered by the world. But the access must be on the earth for those who desire it. But one must be unhappy with the world to start the quest. If there is attachment to any part of the world then the journey does not start. Where I thought science failed me in providing answers to the difficult questions I also thought religion failed as well. So I took the path as outlined by Jesus in the New Testament. But when I did so I was in the state of mind as outlined by Joseph Smith. I know that many exmo hate the man. That is because they don't understand the rules he had to live by. Once you understand the rules so you can strip away the things he said and did as a result of the desires of those around him what is left is pretty good stuff. The temple endowment in its original form is his best work. It is on the level of the Revelation written by John. Both are symbolic and when you figure out the symbolism it leads to truth about us.