My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

[_Gunnar]

Of course Frank offers no evidence. He has effectively stated, or at least strongly implied, that he has a complete disdain for evidence or basing one's convictions on the best available evidence. He has, in effect, admitted that the more abundant and detailed the evidence for something, the more strongly inclined he is to doubt or even reject it, and that he thinks that if something is really true, no evidence should ever be required to accept it.

[_Franktalk]

Of course Frank offers no evidence. He has effectively stated, or at least strongly implied, that he has a complete disdain for evidence or basing one's convictions on the best available evidence. He has, in effect, admitted that the more abundant and detailed the evidence for something, the more strongly inclined he is to doubt or even reject it, and that he thinks that if something is really true, no evidence should ever be required to accept it.

This is not true. I accept that there is a physical universe and that the universe has many elements that interact with each other. I accept that man has indeed found many of these interactions and has formed a working knowledge of them. I also believe there is a greater reality besides this one we see. I believe many things interact between these realities. It is no different than believing in dark mass or dark energy. Or even branes.

When it fits science to believe in a greater reality it seems you are all for it. But if anyone else suggest such a thing it is just nonsense. From where I sit it is science that really twists the mind into a huge belief system.

[_DrW]

Of course Frank offers no evidence. He has effectively stated, or at least strongly implied, that he has a complete disdain for evidence or basing one's convictions on the best available evidence. He has, in effect, admitted that the more abundant and detailed the evidence for something, the more strongly inclined he is to doubt or even reject it, and that he thinks that if something is really true, no evidence should ever be required to accept it.

This is not true. I accept that there is a physical universe and that the universe has many elements that interact with each other. I accept that man has indeed found many of these interactions and has formed a working knowledge of them. I also believe there is a greater reality besides this one we see. I believe many things interact between these realities. It is no different than believing in dark mass or dark energy. Or even branes.

When it fits science to believe in a greater reality it seems you are all for it. But if anyone else suggest such a thing it is just nonsense. From where I sit it is science that really twists the mind into a huge belief system.

There is plenty of scientific evidence for dark matter. Dark energy is a construct that works in forming an internally consistent mathematical view of the expanding universe. We have direct evidence for the existence of what we call dark energy. It can be described theoretically and mathematically within the framework of general relativity.

Branes are a bit more highly speculative and purely theoretical at this point. Not sure that anyone who is qualified to comment would claim to "believe" in branes. And it will be a long time (if ever) before humankind can obtain the evidence needed to confirm or discount their existence, based on their mathematical description.

In contrast, based on your description of what you believe about physical reality, available evidence, best interpreted, indicates that it is mainly nonsense.

[_Themis]

There is plenty of scientific evidence for dark matter. Dark energy is a construct that works in forming an internally consistent mathematical view of the expanding universe. We have direct evidence for the existence of what we call dark energy. It can be described theoretically and mathematically within the framework of general relativity.

Branes are a bit more highly speculative and purely theoretical at this point. Not sure that anyone who is qualified to comment would claim to "believe" in branes. And it will be a long time (if ever) before humankind can obtain the evidence needed to confirm or discount their existence, based on their mathematical description.

In contrast, based on your description of what you believe about physical reality, available evidence, best interpreted, indicates that it is mainly nonsense.

Which is to say that things like dark matter are based on evidence and math. Are your beliefs about other realities Frank based on any math like that for dark matter? Keep in mind my point is not to say your beliefs are not true, just that they have nothing to back them up.

[_Franktalk]

Which is to say that things like dark matter are based on evidence and math. Are your beliefs about other realities Frank based on any math like that for dark matter? Keep in mind my point is not to say your beliefs are not true, just that they have nothing to back them up.

Sure

Ponderings - desires = truth of a greater reality

See how simple that is.

[_Gunnar]

Yeah, what you said, Themis. That's pretty much the way I look at it too. I don't doubt that there are realities we don't yet understand or are even aware of yet. I sometimes try to imagine what some of these as yet misunderstood and undiscovered realities might be and how they might eventually affect us. I don't fault Franktalk having similar speculations, only for seemingly giving more weight and credibility to them than is warranted by currently available evidence, and not giving sufficient weight to what is already strongly supported by evidence and reason.

[_Themis]

Which is to say that things like dark matter are based on evidence and math. Are your beliefs about other realities Frank based on any math like that for dark matter? Keep in mind my point is not to say your beliefs are not true, just that they have nothing to back them up.

Sure

Ponderings - desires = truth of a greater reality

See how simple that is.

I take this as an admission you have no evidence or math to back up your ponderings. Lots of people ponder all kinds of alternate realities like you, and like you, have no evidence to back them up. You have no way to know they represent truth of a greater reality. I would also question you are really doing a great job of subtracting the desires.

[_Franktalk]

I take this as an admission you have no evidence or math to back up your ponderings. Lots of people ponder all kinds of alternate realities like you, and like you, have no evidence to back them up. You have no way to know they represent truth of a greater reality. I would also question you are really doing a great job of subtracting the desires.

I don't think you have it right. I have no desire to supply evidence of a greater reality.

[_Themis]

I take this as an admission you have no evidence or math to back up your ponderings. Lots of people ponder all kinds of alternate realities like you, and like you, have no evidence to back them up. You have no way to know they represent truth of a greater reality. I would also question you are really doing a great job of subtracting the desires.

I don't think you have it right. I have no desire to supply evidence of a greater reality.

I understand you don't want to supply any evidence, and I am not saying you have to. You don't really have any evidence other then the thoughts that you ponder or maybe sensation experiences you have and interpret the way you want. This is not really good evidence that your ponderings and interpretions are correct about some other realities that might exist. This is why you don't give any details of why you think certain ideas are correct.

[_Franktalk]

I understand you don't want to supply any evidence, and I am not saying you have to. You don't really have any evidence other then the thoughts that you ponder or maybe sensation experiences you have and interpret the way you want. This is not really good evidence that your ponderings and interpretions are correct about some other realities that might exist. This is why you don't give any details of why you think certain ideas are correct.

I don't think evidence is required. There is no tangible evidence for the scriptures yet many believe. Socrates wrote about his ponderings and they are still read today. So your comments lack a normal world view. Things of worth do not require evidence.

Do you not laugh at jokes? When you hear a sad story do you feel sad? It is all part of the human condition. A condition you appear to reject.