In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.
So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.
Last edited by bill4long on Fri Jun 12, 2026 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.
The Christian founders took words from the Bible and dressed them up to meet their own agenda and literally perverted the original intent and meaning of Old Testament prayers offered by the King of Israel. It’s somewhat similar to what Joseph Smith did with Facsimile No. 3 in making up stories for the Book of Abraham -- he chopped off the snout and headdress of the god Anubis in order to make him his ideal slave. The Christians hacked David in order to promote their idea of the Messiah in whom they claimed would be coming back very soon and establish his kingdom.
LittleNipper reminds me of a Mormon apologist attempting to defend the Book of Abraham. Same thing, different book.
So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.
The Christian founders took words from the Bible and dressed them up to meet their own agenda and literally perverted the original intent and meaning of Old Testament prayers offered by the King of Israel. It’s somewhat similar to what Joseph Smith did with Facsimile No. 3 in making up stories for the Book of Abraham -- he chopped off the snout and headdress of the god Anubis in order to make him his ideal slave. The Christians hacked David in order to promote their idea of the Messiah in whom they claimed would be coming back very soon and establish his kingdom.
LittleNipper reminds me of a Mormon apologist attempting to defend the Book of Abraham. Same thing, different book.
Repent, LittleNipper. Repent!
Metaphorical interpretation is the stock-in-trade of religious con men. (And women.) Their victims see what they want to see.
On the other hand, Old Testament verses said to symbolize Christ are convoluted and watered down versions compared to Book of Mormon prophecies which are far superior and define events with exactness. Now you will agree that’s ironic. Ha ha.
In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.
So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.
I’ve been fascinated by a possible dual-fulfillment interpretation, not limited to metaphor.
In that view, David or Isaiah describe events happening to them, or about to happen to them. But at the same time pointing to a telescoped fulfillment in Christ. So psalm 22 has application to both David and Jesus.
I’ve thought maybe the “almah” from Isaiah 14:7 has a dual meaning—first fulfilled relatively soon following the prophecy by the birth of Maher-shalal-hash-baz through a young woman and ultimately by Christ through the virgin.
The concept can be applied to Isaiah 53 as well. I’ve even wondered if maybe Isaiah was put to death and brought back. Purely speculative and unsupported, but interesting in light of the idea of deutero-Isaiah.
In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.
So you acknowlege your take is merely a metaphorical interpreration and not a literal factual match. Got it.
I take the view that David was speaking metaphorically of himself, BUT GOD meant it prophetically as to what would happen to Jesus Christ.
You believe what you wish; however, have you prayed about your opinion, or just "feel" that way.
In Psalm 22:20-21, the psalmist pleads for God to deliver his life from violent destruction, with the "sword" and various beasts are metaphorical for imminent, brutal death at the hands of one's enemies. And clearly Jesus (even though the GOD in the flesh) wasn't looking forward to being tormented hurt, and separated from the FATHER for the only time in HIS history.
1) Deliver his life: Life is spared and death is thwarted. This applies to King David, NOT to Jesus!
2) Metaphorical: Religionists love to twist and distort a comparison between two entirely different things.
King David begs God to spare his life from all forms of death so that he may continue his administration as King of Israel:
22:20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
22:21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
David was delivered and rescued and lived to the ripe age of 70.
End of story.
The REALITY is that the word of GOD can have multiple meanings. And ALL of them can be entirely correct. The Bible is (unlike all other books) is the LIVING WORD OF GOD.
1) Deliver his life: Life is spared and death is thwarted. This applies to King David, NOT to Jesus!
2) Metaphorical: Religionists love to twist and distort a comparison between two entirely different things.
King David begs God to spare his life from all forms of death so that he may continue his administration as King of Israel:
22:20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
22:21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
David was delivered and rescued and lived to the ripe age of 70.
End of story.
The REALITY is that the word of GOD can have multiple meanings. And ALL of them can be entirely correct. The Bible is (unlike all other books) is the LIVING WORD OF GOD.
NO! Reality has become the interpretation of religionists playing God to satisfy their faithful imaginations.
For example, Ps. 22:16:
1) Propoganda:
“they [animalistic enemies] pierced [crucified] my hands and my feet.”
2) Reality:
“they [animalistic enemies] are at my hands and my feet.”
This has absolutely nothing to do with the crucifixion of Jesus that would take place a thousand years in the future. David did not present himself as a type for a suffering Messiah being symbolically crucified. What about St Paul (1 Cor 1:13), was he crucified for you too?
I’d recommend reading Psalm 22 alongside the Dead Sea Scroll evidence and Zechariah 12:10. I don’t think it definitively answers all objections but it may lend additional context to the issue.
I’d recommend reading Psalm 22 alongside the Dead Sea Scroll evidence and Zechariah 12:10. I don’t think it definitively answers all objections but it may lend additional context to the issue.
I hardly see how literal compositions written by two men (David & Zachariah) who were separated by 500 years are referencing a futuristic event of a death penalty that is supposed to occur many hundreds of years in the future. I don’t see the connection leading to a 33 AD common point in time wherein these specific things are suppose to occur. Rather, I see the writers speaking in their own times to their own peoples, and dealing with their own problems leading up to near futuristic events over the horizon.
Zachariah’s pierced does not lend me to visualize or imagine a futuristic Messiah being nailed to a cross by foreign invaders/overlords (Romans). This is entirely a Christian church interpretation in an effort to find something in the Old Testament to fit their new narrative in creating religion. As you know, the use of the word pierced (stabbed?) has been debated since long before our time and scholars argue for multiple interpretations in what exactly is being implied in Zachariah’s prophetic oracle.
For reference:
Num 24:8 God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
2 Kings 18:21 Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him.
Luke 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
So, yes, we can look at the context from different angles and determine that crucifixion and capital punishment is not explicit to the text in question.
