Paul Osborne is Wonderful!

[_Paul Osborne]

I'd rather have the truth than be shielded with lies.

You are in the minority, from what I have observed. From the GA's on down the food chain, Mormons would prefer to never be confronted with the truth... the truth about Joseph, the truth about the prophets who have spent their entire lives covering up for Joseph, the truth about Brigham, the truth about the stupid ideas Brigham passed off as doctrine, the truth about where the money goes, the truth about the pioneers, the truth about the temple endowment... Mormons do not want the truth, and they fight it, ignore it, denigrate it, and do their very best to trample on it.

If this wasn't the celestial forum I would say something pretty crass.

You’re deceived by the cunning of Satan and his wicked presentations of the restored gospel. Satan made early Christianity look even worse! In fact, they killed the Messiah and tortured his apostles.

Critics of the Church use dishonest tactics to represent Mormonism. They lie and distort things (and don't tell the whole story) in order to push their agenda against the Church. All antiMormons are liars to some degree.

Paul O

[_harmony]

I'd rather have the truth than be shielded with lies.

You are in the minority, from what I have observed. From the GA's on down the food chain, Mormons would prefer to never be confronted with the truth... the truth about Joseph, the truth about the prophets who have spent their entire lives covering up for Joseph, the truth about Brigham, the truth about the stupid ideas Brigham passed off as doctrine, the truth about where the money goes, the truth about the pioneers, the truth about the temple endowment... Mormons do not want the truth, and they fight it, ignore it, denigrate it, and do their very best to trample on it.

If this wasn't the celestial forum I would say something pretty crass.

You’re deceived by the cunning of Satan and his wicked presentations of the restored gospel. Satan made early Christianity look even worse! In fact, they killed the Messiah and tortured his apostles.

Critics of the Church use dishonest tactics to represent Mormonism. They lie and distort things (and don't tell the whole story) in order to push their agenda against the Church. All antiMormons are liars to some degree.

Paul O

Our earliest modern prophet was a liar, Paul. Also an adulterer, a con man, and he used people. The later modern prophets all had their human failings too. What's your point?

[_ajax18]

Critics of the Church use dishonest tactics to represent Mormonism. They lie and distort things (and don't tell the whole story) in order to push their agenda against the Church. All antiMormons are liars to some degree.

It's not even the history that bothered me from the start Paul. I learned quickly as a youth that these people are control freaks. They want to control everyone.

They want to exploit you and they want you to allow it because you love God. Well I don't love the God that Mormonism describes. If He really is all powerful I suppose I would have to put up with it, but I could never like it. Never.

[_Paul Osborne]

Our earliest modern prophet was a liar, Paul. Also an adulterer, a con man, and he used people. The later modern prophets all had their human failings too. What's your point?

He is a liar, adulterer, and a conman from your perspective, Harmony. Others can examine the evidence regarding the prophet’s life and circumstances from a different viewpoint.

There were Jews and Romans who thought Jesus was a deceiver working miracles through the power of Satan. These are the same kind of people who condemn Joseph Smith. Those who persecute Joseph Smith would have persecuted the Lord Jesus - they might well have crucified him too!

You are a blasphemer, harmony.

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

Critics of the Church use dishonest tactics to represent Mormonism. They lie and distort things (and don't tell the whole story) in order to push their agenda against the Church. All antiMormons are liars to some degree.

It's not even the history that bothered me from the start Paul. I learned quickly as a youth that these people are control freaks. They want to control everyone.

They want to exploit you and they want you to allow it because you love God. Well I don't love the God that Mormonism describes. If He really is all powerful I suppose I would have to put up with it, but I could never like it. Never.

You prefer some other kind of God, do you? What better God is there than that of Mormonism?

The God of modern Christianity is a total looser. It lets this world swim in doom and cares nothing for it. It doesn't give a rats *** what happens to anyone. Just look at what is going on around you! It is a total idiot and did nothing for all eternity while sitting on its *** picking its nose. Can you love that? I sure couldn't.

http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id121.htm

Paul O

[MODERATOR NOTE: Please no swear words of any type, not even the "A" word, in the Celestial Forum. Thank you!]

[_ajax18]

The God of modern Christianity is a total looser. It lets this world swim in doom and cares nothing for it. It doesn't give a rats *** what happens to anyone. Just look at what is going on around you! It is a total idiot and did nothing for all eternity while sitting on its *** picking its nose. Can you love that? I sure couldn't.

Agreed!

Maybe what I'm saying is that my relationship with other people in the Mormon Church, especially in the mission field, has damaged my relationship with God by them using it as a means of manipulating and using me. I know God is not like that. I just don't like most of the people's views at church, and the deeper I let myself get involved the more of a downer authoritarian style thing it becomes. I do better when I'm by myself.

Ecclesiastes says that two is better than one because if one falls there is another to help him up. I say that one is better than two because with one there would have been nobody there to knock him down in the first place.

[_Ray A]

http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id121.htm

Paul O

Paul, that's a pretty hefty piece of writing, but I'm not sure I get the same meaning from it that you do.

[_harmony]

God is not responsible for the trouble man gets himself into. Man does that all by himself. Man does that when he makes decisions, whatever they may be, and by making those decisions, those choices, he fulfills his destiny and God's plan for him.

God's plan of salvation is predicated on man choosing his own destiny. Whatever the hand that man is dealt, it's his responsibility alone how he plays it out, how he lives his life. Blaming God for his mistakes, for the mistakes of his fellow man, is the prime example of man choosing to deny his choice, after the choice has been made. We choose who we are, what we are, how we live, and how everyone around us lives. Our lives are the way they are (no matter whether we're rich, poor, learned, illiterate, wartorn, peaceful, etc) because of our choices and the choices of everyone around us.

This world doesn't have to be a place of war, pollution, poverty, starvation, and misery. We choose to make it that way. Blaming God for not interfering is only man, trying to shift the burden of his own poor choices, as per usual. God is not responsible for man's stupid mistakes! Were God to "fix" the world's problems, man would not learn anything! The only way man learns is if he suffers the consequences of his actions. Were God to take that away, man would never learn.

Don't blame God. Blame yourself. We're the ones who made the choices; we're the ones to suffer the consequences, whatever they may be, good or bad.

[_Ray A]

God is not responsible for the trouble man gets himself into. Man does that all by himself. Man does that when he makes decisions, whatever they may be, and by making those decisions, those choices, he fulfills his destiny and God's plan for him.

God's plan of salvation is predicated on man choosing his own destiny. Whatever the hand that man is dealt, it's his responsibility alone how he plays it out, how he lives his life. Blaming God for his mistakes, for the mistakes of his fellow man, is the prime example of man choosing to deny his choice, after the choice has been made. We choose who we are, what we are, how we live, and how everyone around us lives. Our lives are the way they are (no matter whether we're rich, poor, learned, illiterate, wartorn, peaceful, etc) because of our choices and the choices of everyone around us.

This world doesn't have to be a place of war, pollution, poverty, starvation, and misery. We choose to make it that way. Blaming God for not interfering is only man, trying to shift the burden of his own poor choices, as per usual. God is not responsible for man's stupid mistakes! Were God to "fix" the world's problems, man would not learn anything! The only way man learns is if he suffers the consequences of his actions. Were God to take that away, man would never learn.

Don't blame God. Blame yourself. We're the ones who made the choices; we're the ones to suffer the consequences, whatever they may be, good or bad.

Very True.

[_Paul Osborne]

God is not responsible for the trouble man gets himself into. Man does that all by himself. Man does that when he makes decisions, whatever they may be, and by making those decisions, those choices, he fulfills his destiny and God's plan for him.

God's plan of salvation is predicated on man choosing his own destiny. Whatever the hand that man is dealt, it's his responsibility alone how he plays it out, how he lives his life. Blaming God for his mistakes, for the mistakes of his fellow man, is the prime example of man choosing to deny his choice, after the choice has been made. We choose who we are, what we are, how we live, and how everyone around us lives. Our lives are the way they are (no matter whether we're rich, poor, learned, illiterate, wartorn, peaceful, etc) because of our choices and the choices of everyone around us.

This world doesn't have to be a place of war, pollution, poverty, starvation, and misery. We choose to make it that way. Blaming God for not interfering is only man, trying to shift the burden of his own poor choices, as per usual. God is not responsible for man's stupid mistakes! Were God to "fix" the world's problems, man would not learn anything! The only way man learns is if he suffers the consequences of his actions. Were God to take that away, man would never learn.

Don't blame God. Blame yourself. We're the ones who made the choices; we're the ones to suffer the consequences, whatever they may be, good or bad.

Yes, I agree with you, harmony. Well said.

Will you also will offer a statement about what happens to all the billions of people (especially Asians & Africans) who lived on the earth who died having never heard of Jesus Christ? Christian religions of the past as well as today have condemned these people to eternal torment.

Paul O

PS. Moderator, sorry about my cussing. I deserve to be chewed out for that one.