Dating the Gospels

[_David Waltz]

Hey Doc,

You posted:

>>Does he consider the "Gospel of Q" to be the source for the Synoptic Gospels, and if so, is that what he says was written before the fall of Jerusalem?>>

Me: He points to “Q” as a source.

>>Also, what is his justification for dating the Gospel According to St. John to before the fall of Jerusalem?>>

Me: Jersey Girl is on the right track. Robinson put it this way:

One of the oddest facts about the New Testament is that what on any showing would appear to be the single most datable and climatic event of the period – the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, and with it the collapse of institutional Judaism based on the temple – is never once mentioned as past fact. (Page 13)

The Beachbum

[_Jersey Girl]

David,

According to my readers, I am almost never on track about anything. Thank you. What is your opinion of the work of (I believe his name is) Sir William Ramsey on Luke/Acts?

Jersey Girl

[_Polygamy Porter]

What about dating the Gospel's by content?

Because each of the Gospels describe events that took place in the past. Since none of them specifically state the year in which they were written, we have no idea how far in the past the events took place that the gospels were writing about. (For example, was the writer of the Gospel of Mark referring to events 10 years previous or 50 years previous?)

Well, Shades, I think that we can get somewhere if we view the Gospels as historical snapshots. For example, judging by the content of the following photo, what is the latest date you could reasonably assume that it was taken?

Get real Joisie Goil!

Jesus was Amish, and forbade anyone from taking his picture.

Seriously, the photo above is REAL and can be verified.

The entire Bible cannot be verified, so enough of the comparing it to real tangible things like photographs.

Fun with Bible stories: Tell me this, how long did the incest last with Adam, Eve, and their kids? I wonder if Eve slept with Cain or Able? Perhaps Cain was jealous that he was second?

Too bad Jerry Springer wasn't around then.. since they lived well into their HUNDREDS back then, I wonder if one of the first son's had sex with their daughter conceived with Eve?

I dunno, I think Smith was a bit north of where the Garden of Eden is located... then again, none of this happened until after the where kicked out... perhaps it was late fall when they were kicked out and they did head south...

[_Jersey Girl]

Get real Joisie Goil!

Porter, I hate to bust your bubble but no one in New Jersey talks like that. The dialect you chose to use is more relevant to The Bronx or Brooklyn.

Jesus was Amish, and forbade anyone from taking his picture.

Seriously, the photo above is REAL and can be verified.

And your point is?

The entire Bible cannot be verified, so enough of the comparing it to real tangible things like photographs.

I don't believe I started a thread on verification of the "entire Bible", Porter. As for real tangible things like photographs...how do you know it's real? Is this real?



If you think the above is real, when do you think it was taken?

Do you think the Temple prior to 70-ish A.D. was real?

Fun with Bible stories: Tell me this, how long did the incest last with Adam, Eve, and their kids? I wonder if Eve slept with Cain or Able? Perhaps Cain was jealous that he was second?

This thread isn't about the Old Testament, Porter. It's about dating the gospels. If you'd like to begin a "Fun with Bible stories" thread, feel free.

Too bad Jerry Springer wasn't around then.. since they lived well into their HUNDREDS back then, I wonder if one of the first son's had sex with their daughter conceived with Eve?

Again, off topic.

I dunno, I think Smith was a bit north of where the Garden of Eden is located... then again, none of this happened until after the where kicked out... perhaps it was late fall when they were kicked out and they did head south...

And again, off topic.

Jersey Girl

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Does the Gospel respect you in the morning??

Does the Gospel ever call again if you do get it on?

Does the Gospel let you order Lobster?

How much money does the Gospel make can he or she support a family???

Is the Gospel allowed to marry???

Or only same sex couples???/

[_Jersey Girl]

Does the Gospel respect you in the morning??

Does the Gospel ever call again if you do get it on?

Does the Gospel let you order Lobster?

How much money does the Gospel make can he or she support a family???

Is the Gospel allowed to marry???

Or only same sex couples???/

Q: Do you know what forum you're posting in?
A: Nope

Jersey Girl

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Does not matter what forum I'm on.

I'm funny that is all I care about.

[_Jersey Girl]

So, I've got little or no serious takers on this thread. Not a problem. I do not know when the dating of the Gospels was challenged moving the dates far forward into the future so as to leave the way open for attempts to discredit them and subsequently calling into question the very existence of Jesus himself, but I don't buy it. As I attempted to demonstrate by posting the image of the World Trade Center, what similar photo in a US History book would not place that photo at pre-Sept 11th? Any photo where the towers are absent, leave us only to conclude that the photos were taken either prior to their construction or after their destruction. I say the same is true for the Temple's presence in the Gospels and throughout the entire New Testament.

The writings of John, for example contain references to the Pools of Bethsaida, the Pool of Siloam, "The Pavement", all of which were thought to be invalid references until they were unearthed by archaeologists in contemporary times. These features of Jerusalem were devestated during the Temple destruction on or around 70 A.D. And yet, there are liberal Bible scholars who would choose to ignore these as concrete evidence that the Gospel of John was produced prior 70 A.D.

The writings of Luke, contain socio-political and geographical references that put these writings directly into the historical context of the early 1st century. Sir William Ramsey and others, pinpointed these references as accurate and precise.

Whether or not the Gospels themselves were produced in written form or not, the content of the Gospels as well as the remainder of the whole Corpus of the New Testament, clearly indicates 1st century origins.

Why would "scholars" ignore the possibility that Paul and others wrote simultaneously? When, for example, President John Kennedy was assasinated, a flurry of writings were produced by various authors reviewing the event. Why is that same possiblity completely discarded in the case of Bible scripts?

You tell me.

Jersey Girl

[_Jersey Girl]

Let's look again at these Wikipedia dates:

Gospel of Mark: +70 AD (conservative dating may be as early as 50)
Gospel of Matthew: +80-90 AD (conservative dating in the 60s although as early as the 40s)
Gospel of Luke: +80–90 AD (conservative dating in the 60s)
Gospel of John: +95–110 AD (conservative dating in the late 80s to early 90s)

Now, let's take the liberal dating of the Gospel of John with the farthest date of 110 AD.
that would put us at or around 75 years post-crucifixion and 40 years post-Temple destruction, yet the Temple destruction is not mentioned once in John's writings. These liberal dates still place the events described in the Gospels in contemporary times.

It is nearly 43 years since the assassination of JFK. Would any historian writing about US History in 30 years fail to mention the assassination of JFK?

Does that make sense?

Jersey Girl

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

I am sorry Jersey Girl.
I did not mean to make light of this I will stop.