Do LDS believe that Abraham lied?

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_Jersey Girl
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Do LDS believe that Abraham lied?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Do LDS believe that Abraham lied about Sarah or encouraged her to lie about her relationship to Abraham based on the following? Just curious...


Genesis 12
1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

5And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

6And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

7And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

8And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.

9And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.

10And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

11And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:

12Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

13Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

14And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.

15The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.

16And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.

17And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.

18And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?

19Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

20And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Here is a perfect example of the necessity of continual revelation. here is a directive from God that does not apply to eternal salvation, but in the care and protection of his children. Just as the Lord forbids murder, but has told his people to decimate an enemy to the point of killing and burning even the slightest memory of them, so Abraham needed to lie to accomplish the work God needed him to do.

Abraham received all the blessings God had to offer. So from this perspective we know that there was no unrighteousness in his lie to pharaoh.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:Here is a perfect example of the necessity of continual revelation. here is a directive from God that does not apply to eternal salvation, but in the care and protection of his children. Just as the Lord forbids murder, but has told his people to decimate an enemy to the point of killing and burning even the slightest memory of them, so Abraham needed to lie to accomplish the work God needed him to do.

Abraham received all the blessings God had to offer. So from this perspective we know that there was no unrighteousness in his lie to pharaoh.



Why do you think the above constitutes a lie? Are you saying that Sarah wasn't Abraham's sister?

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Post by _Gazelam »

Do you know something I don't about this ? Please share.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:Do you know something I don't about this ? Please share.


Have you read the entirety of Genesis?

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Post by _Gazelam »

Yeh, about 13 years ago. lol

C'mon, spit it out, I don't want this to turn into another thread like you and Loran ahd at ZLMB. : )
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:Yeh, about 13 years ago. lol

C'mon, spit it out, I don't want this to turn into another thread like you and Loran ahd at ZLMB. : )


Gaz,

With all due respect, you yourself are spitting out LDS apologetics 101 (canned responses) to what I have posted. Here is Genesis 20:

Genesis 20

1And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.

2And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.

3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.

4But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, LORD, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

5Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.

6And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

7Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

8Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

9Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

10And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?

11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.

12And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

13And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.

14And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.

15And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.

16And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.

17So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.

18For the LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
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Post by _Gazelam »

Oh alright, I thought you were refering to something else. yes, that is the lie spoken of, and no, she was not really his sister
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:Oh alright, I thought you were refering to something else. yes, that is the lie spoken of, and no, she was not really his sister


What in the above suggests to you that Sarah wasn't really Abraham's sister?

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Post by _Gazelam »

Jersey,

Know what? I was wrong.

I just re-read the text as shown by Jersey, and I am wrong. There was a Lie of a sort in not telling that Sarah was his wife, but the Lie was not in her being his sister. There is a scripture in the Book of Abraham that tells why Abraham had to withold the information:

21 And I, Abraham, journeyed, going on still towards the south; and there was a continuation of a famine in the land; and I, Abraham, concluded to go down into Egypt, to sojourn there, for the famine became very grievous.
22 And it came to pass when I was come near to enter into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman to look upon;
23 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see her, they will say—She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise:
24 Let her say unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live.
25 And it came to pass that I, Abraham, told Sarai, my wife, all that the Lord had said unto me—Therefore say unto them, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee.

I had these verses in mind when I said what i said, withou ttaking the time to read the account in Genesis. I apologize to all for my lack of study on the topic before speaking on the matter.

Thank you Jersey, you again keep me on my toes.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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