True Doctrine

[_Mercury]

If you had no faith in God, you would not care. I hear repeatedly that we are wrong, but never do I hear what faith in opposition to the church is true.

You seek to destroy my house, and offer nothing in return but your hollow narcissistic words and hedonistic lifestyle of destruction. When you can show me the true God of Israel, then I wil hear you, until then your just a buzzing insect.

Gaz

Damn, I must be a pretty big, plentiful buzzing insect.

Issue 1:
The opposition to the church is ubiquitous. Individuals outside of Mormonism view it as a marginalized group. The number of individuals who hold this view outweigh the number of Mormons ASTRONOMICALLY.

Mormons are irony impaired. The statements they make alluding to percieved universal acceptance of their worldview (i and others are "buzzing insects") reflect this. To the astronomical majority of the world Mormons are buzzing insects that go door to door. Even in teh united states Mormons are percieved as cultish polygamists living in compunds, molesting their neices.

Reality, gaz. Gaz, reality. Talk amongst yourselves and get to know one another.

Issue 2:
As for the need you are requiring for "proper opposition" to the church, this was a major hangup of mine before leaving MormonCorp. It wasn't until I took what I learned in higher education and applied it that I started to see the Fnords (for reference, google "The illuminatus Trilogy Fnord").

Issue 3:
I do not seek to destroy your house. I seek to enlighten you. Like a zen master slapping the arrogant student into listening, my technique can be rough but my purpose is to get you to pay attention to what you are reading. People remember invective mixed with brash realistic statements.



Admins: If this is too snarky then relegate this reply to where it belongs.

[_Mercury]

My post was directed to vegas specificly, not everyone.

I don't question that there are good lifestyles and people outside the church. That people lead great and constructive lives outside the church is self evident. Rick Warren ring any bells?

Vegas is the one who attacks and tears down and offers nothing in the place of what he seeks to destroy. Today anyway.

Gaz

I tear down because its the natural response to ludicrousity.

As for not offering anything in return, I have repeatedly suggested you leave Mormonism behind.

Give yourself a ten percent insta-raise

ditch the garments...I KNOW you wnat to. Boxers are SO much more comfortable...and cheaper, better made products.

Get more time to be with your family...isnt it about time?

Stop the guilt-ridden thoughts constantly doing a doubletake on everything you do. Claim ownership of your thoughts and stop worrying about the kolobian boogie-man peering into your head taking notes on that fleeting "bad thought"

Ditch the magic worldview.

Theres a handfull of the immense SEA of offerings I can bring to you for just leaving MormonCorp...hedonism not being a prerequisite.

Live your life ethically, not morally.

[_Mercury]

My post was directed to vegas specificly, not everyone.

I don't question that there are good lifestyles and people outside the church. That people lead great and constructive lives outside the church is self evident. Rick Warren ring any bells?

Vegas is the one who attacks and tears down and offers nothing in the place of what he seeks to destroy. Today anyway.

Gaz

I read Vegas's blog and see a guy with a beautiful young family, doing exactly what I am doing: trying to make a living and raise that family the best way he knows how. That he's justifiably angry at a lying, manipulative, totally false religion has nothing to do with hedonism.

Furthermore, I'm stunned that you think that one cannot point out lies and deceit unless one offers something else instead. Isn't the truth enough, Gaz?

And no, Rick Warren does not ring any bells. Should he?

Thanks Runtu! Glad to know someones reading.

[_Runtu]

My post was directed to vegas specificly, not everyone.

I don't question that there are good lifestyles and people outside the church. That people lead great and constructive lives outside the church is self evident. Rick Warren ring any bells?

Vegas is the one who attacks and tears down and offers nothing in the place of what he seeks to destroy. Today anyway.

Gaz

I read Vegas's blog and see a guy with a beautiful young family, doing exactly what I am doing: trying to make a living and raise that family the best way he knows how. That he's justifiably angry at a lying, manipulative, totally false religion has nothing to do with hedonism.

Furthermore, I'm stunned that you think that one cannot point out lies and deceit unless one offers something else instead. Isn't the truth enough, Gaz?

And no, Rick Warren does not ring any bells. Should he?

Thanks Runtu! Glad to know someones reading.

I'm glad I did. Your daughter is adorable.

[_Gazelam]

I mention him only to show that plenty of good is accomplished with only pieces of the truth as taught by Christ.

Rick Warren is a Born Again Christian minister made famous for his book "The Purpose Driven Life" As of November 2005, The Purpose Driven Life has been translated into 56 languages and ... The book has sold over 24 million copies (as of November, 2005). They have Donated 90% of the proceeds from the sale of the book towards the spread of Christianity.

He operates from what is called "Saddleback church" http://www.saddleback.com/flash/default.htm in California. Over 400,000 pastors and church leaders from around the world have attended a seminar or conference led by Warren and other pastors who share best practices as they seek to be more effective in fulfilling the Great Commission and the Great Commandment. The term Purpose Driven refers to these pastors' attempt to balance the five purposes of Worship, Fellowship, Discipleship, Ministry, and Evangelism in their churches. Saddleback Church also started a non-profit web-site PurposeDriven.com to help communicate and coordinate the community.

Over the years, Christian leaders in 162 countries have used materials which stem from this movement. Through this organization over 400,000 ministers and priests have been trained worldwide in his theology and practical methods. 189,000 church leaders subscribe to Ministry Toolbox, the weekly newsletter.[13]



He currently is working with the President of Rwanda in spreading Christianity there and healing the effects of ethnic cleansing. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1093746,00.html

His current trip to Syria to work towards the same goals was somewhat controvercial. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53092

The point is, even with a portion of the gospel great things are accomplished.

[_Gazelam]

What belief do you currently espouse? Atheism?

[_Polygamy Porter]

I mention him only to show that plenty of good is accomplished with only pieces of the truth as taught by Christ.

Rick Warren is a Born Again Christian minister made famous for his book "The Purpose Driven Life" As of November 2005, The Purpose Driven Life has been translated into 56 languages and ... The book has sold over 24 million copies (as of November, 2005). They have Donated 90% of the proceeds from the sale of the book towards the spread of Christianity.

He operates from what is called "Saddleback church" http://www.saddleback.com/flash/default.htm in California. Over 400,000 pastors and church leaders from around the world have attended a seminar or conference led by Warren and other pastors who share best practices as they seek to be more effective in fulfilling the Great Commission and the Great Commandment. The term Purpose Driven refers to these pastors' attempt to balance the five purposes of Worship, Fellowship, Discipleship, Ministry, and Evangelism in their churches. Saddleback Church also started a non-profit web-site PurposeDriven.com to help communicate and coordinate the community.

Over the years, Christian leaders in 162 countries have used materials which stem from this movement. Through this organization over 400,000 ministers and priests have been trained worldwide in his theology and practical methods. 189,000 church leaders subscribe to Ministry Toolbox, the weekly newsletter.[13]



He currently is working with the President of Rwanda in spreading Christianity there and healing the effects of ethnic cleansing. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1093746,00.html

His current trip to Syria to work towards the same goals was somewhat controvercial. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53092

The point is, even with a portion of the gospel great things are accomplished.

Sounds like he has done more good than any Mormon effort to date. And yet he only had a portion of the "gospel"

Doing more with less?

[_Gazelam]

I had a run in with a Born Again Christian this past summer, even took a Bible cource with him at his church. Was interesting.

There was plenty of false doctrine thrown about, like the time the teacher said the universe we see exists solely to prove to us that there is a God, and that Earth is the center of the universe.

That aside, the people there showed an impressive zeal and a great desire to serve God, even useing personal expences to do missionary work in the Phillipines and Tibet. In some cases risking their lives.

Now if we could just convert them and give them the priesthood, what great things could be accomplished?

Gaz

[_Polygamy Porter]

I had a run in with a Born Again Christian this past summer, even took a Bible cource with him at his church. Was interesting.

There was plenty of false doctrine thrown about, like the time the teacher said the universe we see exists solely to prove to us that there is a God, and that Earth is the center of the universe.

Really? FALSE doctrine? How may I ask do you qualify that as false doctine and stand proudly running your Mormon beliefs up the flagpole?

How piously hypocritical of you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

That aside, the people there showed an impressive zeal and a great desire to serve God, even useing personal expences to do missionary work in the Phillipines and Tibet. In some cases risking their lives.

Yeah something you almost NEVER see in Mormons, unless they are driven by stats and are between the age of 19 and 22. Look at it simplistically. They believe in one thing, Jesus. that's IT. Mormonism is waaaay more complicated than that. Look around at most members, they loathe missionary work. Mormonism is a very heavy yoke worn around the neck of the members.

Now if we could just convert them and give them the priesthood, what great things could be accomplished?

Gaz

Then they would be bogged down in meetings, peep-teaching, and watching the same boring B movie at the local Mormon masonic theater on behalf of DEAD people. All of their time would be sucked up trying(in vain) to earn what they once thought was a gift and would not have time to do jack squat.

[_Gazelam]

How do I qualify that as false doctrine? How about Abraham 3:1-18? I didn't speak up in the class about it, wasn't really the time or place to introduce that doctrine. I think most in the class (At least I would hope) thought he was wrong.


As for zeal among members, I know its there. Theres pleanty that go to the temple regularly and do all their home teaching each month. Theres also plenty who travel far and wide to proclaim the gospel at their own expence.

One strange thing I noticed is an irreverance at the meetings. There is no pause before a prayer starts, its just "lets pray" and then right into it. very odd.

Bogged down? What is the threefold mission of the church? Preach the gospel, perfect the saints and redeem the dead. All of which perfect oneself, since the gospel only helps a person when they use it in service of others.

Gaz