Can you provide a link or something more on this? I am not dounting. I am aware of two studies of teen behaior. One by the Church in the mid 1990's. It was quite mattter of fact and examined teen behavior among LDS teens in the Pacific NW, the East and Utah. Eastern teens tended to have more trouble with the things the church teaches to avoid, but not be a great number. Then another group in the early 2000's did a similar study among varying religions. Evangelical teens and LDS teens scored the best behavior and both were very close. I seem to recall that the numbers of bad sexual activity were more in the 12%-15% range but this is all from memory. 25% seeems pretty good especially compared to society as a whole. And while you are correct that it is not necessarily the LDS Church per say but emphasized religous behavior and teaching. But the LDS Church does seem more effective in employing it.
Jason
The study was published in JSTOR and isn't available on line. I was studying sociology at the time (with Juliann's favorite professor, actually), so had access to the database and more time for reading sociological studies then. The study is called "Religiosity and Delinquency among LDS Adolescents" by Bruce A. Chadwick and Brent L. Top, published in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, Vol. 32, No. 1 (Mar., 1993), pp. 51-67doi:10.2307/1386913. If you can get ahold of the study, it's fascinating stuff. It compared East Coast LDS students' results with the 1984 Stark study results from California, Utah, and Idaho.
I recognize Top so maybe this is one of the studie I saw. I almost think it was published in BYU Today.
The best members, who will stick it out and pay those tithes will not come from third world countries, nor developed nations, they will come from the bellies of TBM mommas, period.
If the COB released data that detailed where the tithes come from you'd see my point.
Oh sure there will be small changes, here and there, but over all it will still be a tight nit controlling family.
"Growth" will continue to come from the nether regions of the poor areas of the world. Just like it is today. All of the non Anglo baptisms(note baptisms not conversions.. big difference) serve one purpose, to keep Johnny B. Mormon paying his 10% tithes on his middle income to the true church, "cuz it's gwoo'ing by leaps and bounds!"
All I know and am concerned about is this branch of the Mormon tree has been cut off by thr truth handled pruners and will not produce any fruit for the counting of LDS INC.
*lights dim, curtain fails, drum rolls loudly then falls off as the the stage goes black*
Polygamy Porter wrote:It will be the same as it is today.
The best members, who will stick it out and pay those tithes will not come from third world countries, nor developed nations, they will come from the bellies of TBM mommas, period.
If the COB released data that detailed where the tithes come from you'd see my point.
Oh sure there will be small changes, here and there, but over all it will still be a tight nit controlling family.
"Growth" will continue to come from the nether regions of the poor areas of the world. Just like it is today. All of the non Anglo baptisms(note baptisms not conversions.. big difference) serve one purpose, to keep Johnny B. Mormon paying his 10% tithes on his middle income to the true church, "cuz it's gwoo'ing by leaps and bounds!"
All I know and am concerned about is this branch of the Mormon tree has been cut off by thr truth handled pruners and will not produce any fruit for the counting of LDS INC.
*lights dim, curtain fails, drum rolls loudly then falls off as the the stage goes black*
In 2006 our ward, a US but outside of Utah ward had convert baptisms equal to 4%. The year before it was about 3.2% and the year before that about 2.9%. Retention is about 60%. US growth has slowed but has not ceased nor will it. I predict for growth continued 2%-3% increases.
Polygamy Porter wrote:It will be the same as it is today.
The best members, who will stick it out and pay those tithes will not come from third world countries, nor developed nations, they will come from the bellies of TBM mommas, period.
If the COB released data that detailed where the tithes come from you'd see my point.
Oh sure there will be small changes, here and there, but over all it will still be a tight nit controlling family.
"Growth" will continue to come from the nether regions of the poor areas of the world. Just like it is today. All of the non Anglo baptisms(note baptisms not conversions.. big difference) serve one purpose, to keep Johnny B. Mormon paying his 10% tithes on his middle income to the true church, "cuz it's gwoo'ing by leaps and bounds!"
All I know and am concerned about is this branch of the Mormon tree has been cut off by thr truth handled pruners and will not produce any fruit for the counting of LDS INC.
*lights dim, curtain fails, drum rolls loudly then falls off as the the stage goes black*
In 2006 our ward, a US but outside of Utah ward had convert baptisms equal to 4%. The year before it was about 3.2% and the year before that about 2.9%. Retention is about 60%. US growth has slowed but has not ceased nor will it. I predict for growth continued 2%-3% increases.
It's difficult to extrapolate from one ward what the trends in the church are. In my large US (non-Utah) ward (about 300 members), we have had the following results in convert baptisms:
2004: 2 baptisms
2005: 1 baptism
2006: 1 baptism
Of these four people, only the most recent is still active, though one of the 2004 converts attended a sacrament meeting a few months ago.
Polygamy Porter wrote:It will be the same as it is today.
The best members, who will stick it out and pay those tithes will not come from third world countries, nor developed nations, they will come from the bellies of TBM mommas, period.
If the COB released data that detailed where the tithes come from you'd see my point.
Oh sure there will be small changes, here and there, but over all it will still be a tight nit controlling family.
"Growth" will continue to come from the nether regions of the poor areas of the world. Just like it is today. All of the non Anglo baptisms(note baptisms not conversions.. big difference) serve one purpose, to keep Johnny B. Mormon paying his 10% tithes on his middle income to the true church, "cuz it's gwoo'ing by leaps and bounds!"
All I know and am concerned about is this branch of the Mormon tree has been cut off by thr truth handled pruners and will not produce any fruit for the counting of LDS INC.
*lights dim, curtain fails, drum rolls loudly then falls off as the the stage goes black*
In 2006 our ward, a US but outside of Utah ward had convert baptisms equal to 4%. The year before it was about 3.2% and the year before that about 2.9%. Retention is about 60%. US growth has slowed but has not ceased nor will it. I predict for growth continued 2%-3% increases.
It's difficult to extrapolate from one ward what the trends in the church are. In my large US (non-Utah) ward (about 300 members), we have had the following results in convert baptisms:
2004: 2 baptisms 2005: 1 baptism 2006: 1 baptism
Of these four people, only the most recent is still active, though one of the 2004 converts attended a sacrament meeting a few months ago.
Hinckley's turnstile is located on the steps of the baptismal font.
They will be counted as STRONG members until the bean counters in the COB have been notified of their death or their age according to the database is 110 years old.
I still believe they will be counted even if they resign. Until I see an unbiased independent audit of their membership records, I trust Hinckley about as far as I can throw him.
So again, hurray for those baptisms in your ward, that's four more that will help Hinckley keep Johnny B. Mormon paying 10 % on his ~$65,000 annual salary.
[quote Oh sure there will be small changes, here and there, but over all it will still be a tight nit controlling family.
"Growth" will continue to come from the nether regions of the poor areas of the world. Just like it is today. All of the non Anglo baptisms(note baptisms not conversions.. big difference) serve one purpose, to keep Johnny B. Mormon paying his 10% tithes on his middle income to the true church, "cuz it's gwoo'ing by leaps and bounds!"
All I know and am concerned about is this branch of the Mormon tree has been cut off by thr truth handled pruners and will not produce any fruit for the counting of LDS INC.
*lights dim, curtain fails, drum rolls loudly then falls off as the the stage goes black*[/quote]
That's an interesting perspective. I've always wondered why stake leaders continuously came to our branch to convince us it was growing. They came armed with faith promoting miracles of missionary work that nobody else had ever been blessed with and basically a line of bull 2 hours long that said we were going to have good strong coverts coming soon. Then at some point the missionaries would barter and do tit for tat to get someon of the most humble circumstances, mentally, economically, and socially to say yes they'd join.
The common tithe payers serving as bishops really hate this dance because in the end they're left with cleaning up the mess of excommunication that ensues after inactivity settles in. Maybe taking missionaries out of areas is good since they don't see their baptisms go inactive. Then the stake seems to further offend the tithe payers about no missionary successes.
So why do they put on this song and dance that the Church is growing. Even as a TBM I honestly didn't care much about that. It really didn't effect me personally. The kingdom could role forth with many or only one. I was happy either way. What kind of members really need to hear this line of bull and how does it help them to believe it? My parents are TBMs and they really get tired of the missionary madness, especially when people in that town of 2500 people have had the oppurtunity to reject the missionaries 15 to 25 times during their lifetime and reject their member friends about 2 to 3 times every 20 years.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
They came armed with faith promoting miracles of missionary work that nobody else had ever been blessed with and basically a line of bull 2 hours long that said we were going to have good strong coverts coming soon. Then at some point the missionaries would barter and do tit for tat to get someon of the most humble circumstances, mentally, economically, and socially to say yes they'd join.
I've always wondered why the church puts missionaries in the US. The members could easily handle all the missionary efforts if all the missionaries were placed in foreign missions. All the missionaries do is step on the relationships the members have already forged.
Besides, having been a convert for some 36 years, my experience is that converts are the bottom of the food chain, expendable and easily forgotten. Every July, we're forcibly reminded of our lack of pioneer heritage. During every Primary Sacrament Meeting program, we're forcibly reminded that we have no Primary experience in our childhood. During every general conference, we're reminded once again that we do not share the same heritage as a BIC member. Indeed, converts are not part of Mormon Royalty, so our contribution to the church is minimal. We simply don't count.
They came armed with faith promoting miracles of missionary work that nobody else had ever been blessed with and basically a line of bull 2 hours long that said we were going to have good strong coverts coming soon. Then at some point the missionaries would barter and do tit for tat to get someon of the most humble circumstances, mentally, economically, and socially to say yes they'd join.
I've always wondered why the church puts missionaries in the US. The members could easily handle all the missionary efforts if all the missionaries were placed in foreign missions. All the missionaries do is step on the relationships the members have already forged.
Besides, having been a convert for some 36 years, my experience is that converts are the bottom of the food chain, expendable and easily forgotten. Every July, we're forcibly reminded of our lack of pioneer heritage. During every Primary Sacrament Meeting program, we're forcibly reminded that we have no Primary experience in our childhood. During every general conference, we're reminded once again that we do not share the same heritage as a BIC member. Indeed, converts are not part of Mormon Royalty, so our contribution to the church is minimal. We simply don't count.
What you said makes sense, so I don't mean to minimize it, but where did that come from. My parents are converts and they never really felt that way at all, even with as much of a braggart and boisterous fellow I was about being the first in my family to serve a mission. I'm quick to add that there a lot of things about the Gospel and Mormonism that I don't like and just can't get over, but don't seem to bother other people in the least.
It just seems like the only place you can get converts is from the dregs of society. Normal thinking, middle class people are not interested anymore, bottom line. So unless the missionary work somehow benefits the missionary, it really does seem useless in my hometown and I don't understand why they keep closing the area in frustration and then reopening it. Sometimes I think they do it more than anything to keep the branch alive, which most members feels needs to be closed as well, but even if it would make sense to do so for the members, the Church doesn't retreat very quickly. I'm not sure what they are waiting on that will change the people's minds in the area, but I'd venture to say it would be 10 times easier to turn the appalachian mountains upside down.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.