Whats in a Name?

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_Gazelam
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Whats in a Name?

Post by _Gazelam »

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Matthew 1:20-23
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his cname Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Why the Name Jesus? Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua or Joshua which means "Jehovah saves" or "Jehovah is salvation". This was actually a common name among the Jews, but to this was added the title of "Christ" which means "annointed one", in Greek this is translated "Messiah"

D&C 18:21-25
21 Take upon you the name of Christ, and speak the truth in soberness.
22 And as many as repent and are baptized in my name, which is Jesus Christ, and endure to the end, the same shall be saved.
23 Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved;
24 Wherefore, all men must take upon them the name which is given of the Father, for in that name shall they be called at the last day;
25 Wherefore, if they know not the name by which they are called, they cannot have place in the kingdom of my Father.

How is Salvation found in a name?

John 5:26-27, 30
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

As the crown of womanhood is in the giving of life, the crown of Man is in the giving of a name; conferring upon posterity the family name. Ceremony and ritual often accompany this.
By declareing a name upon the child, the Father declares the child his, making the child heir to all that he has, Declareing he will love and protect his progeny because the child is a manifestation of his own flesh and blood.

Children in return are taught to love and respect their parents. To see that the name placed on them is a sacred trust. A rebellious child can be disinherited, cutting the child off from the blessings associated with the name.

That God intended for the Husbands name to be taken on by the wife and children is to be seen from the beginning
Moses 6:9
9 In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God.

Their name was Adam. They became one flesh. The giving of ones name declares a stewardship. You declare that you will care and protect and provide for. Thus Adam placed a name over all things in the Earth, and it was Adam who gave Eve a name.

God the Father placed his name upon Jesus Christ, his only begotten in the flesh, declareing him a rightful heir.

In turn the Savior invited all his earthly brothers and sisters to return to the Heavenly family of which they were once part. To take upon themselves the family name and become heirs to the blessings associated with it.

D&C 39:1-5
1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great bI Am, even Jesus Christ—
2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not;
3 The same which came in the meridian of time unto mine own, and mine own received me not;
4 But to as many as received me, gave I power to become my sons; and even so will I give unto as many as will receive me, power to become my sons.
5 And verily, verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth my gospel receiveth me; and he that receiveth not my gospel receiveth not me.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"Faith, repentence, baptism and the laying on of hands," wrote Elder Orson Pratt, "are the four rules of adoption. Remmision of sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, are the two blessings of adoption which are inseperably connected with obedience to the rules. Both the rules and the blessings of adoption are the same in all ages and dispensations of the gospel. No manor woman ever entered into the church or kingdom of God on this earth, and became a legal citizen thereof, without complying strictly with these rules. Indeed, it is the only door or entrance into the kingdom." ("The Kingdom of God," in Orson Pratt's Works, p.48.)

Further, as a person receives the ordinances of salvation and thereafter enjoys the gift and influence of the Holy Ghost, he is said to have been "born again," to have risen above spiritual death unto spiritual life, to have come alive to the things of the spirit.

As the Savior and foreordained Messiah, Jesus our Lord became the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:9), and the Father's gospel- the gospel of God (see Romans 1:1-3)- became his, the father of resurrection, and the father of redemption. He is also the King of kings, and spiritual adoption represents acceptance into his family kingdom. Those who have been born again become members of the family of Christ and thus take upon them the family name- they become Christians in the true sence of the word and are obligated by covenant to live by the rules and regulations of the royal family, to live a life befitting the new and sacred name they have taken.

(excert from my priesthood lesson from the first sunday this month)

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Gaz, you say this is from your priesthood lesson. From the lesson book, the teacher's supplement or your own compilation? Respectfully, it is obviously a "lesson" to the converted? How many times might some of your class members have heard pretty much the same lesson?

Getting past the DC sections, i think most EVs would agree with what comes from the biblical scriptures. Ever think of switch-teaching? Bring someone not LDS to lead a discussion on a generic topic such as this? Cool, would be great! Then you could do an EV class! Wadya think??

As for what's in a name? If yer a numerologist sort, everything! I suggest ancients who were very superstitious could not structure stories without significant names, and their specific meanings. You say:


As the Savior and foreordained Messiah, Jesus our Lord became the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:9), and the Father's gospel- the gospel of God (see Romans 1:1-3)- became his, the father of resurrection, and the father of redemption. He is also the King of kings, and spiritual adoption represents acceptance into his family kingdom. Those who have been born again become members of the family of Christ and thus take upon them the family name- they become Christians in the true sence of the word and are obligated by covenant to live by the rules and regulations of the royal family, to live a life befitting the new and sacred name they have taken.



Gaz, doesn't some of this sound like theological gibberish? "King of Kings" seems so Monarchial and inappropriate to apply to the man of love and justice. Isn't it nearly time to set aside all of this speculation and hyperbole about the messanger, and get back to his message? Good luck with yer class. Warm regards, Roger
_MormonMendacity
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Post by _MormonMendacity »

Gazelam wrote:By declareing a name upon the child, the Father declares the child his, making the child heir to all that he has, Declareing he will love and protect his progeny because the child is a manifestation of his own flesh and blood.

Conditional love for a child does not seem godly to me.

Conditioning the love upon a set of rules that must be followed or the child is cast to hell, forbidden to live in eternal happiness with the father seems cruel, not loving. Because some of us use the brains this god gave to us and doubt the legends of the Bible he will not love us and bring us back to him?

Why isn't it a god whose heart is full of love for all his creations? Why not a god who isn't manufactured by men to control other men? "'Come follow [him]..' and here is how you follow him," saith the preacher. Saith the man who proclaims himself to be a man of god. An oracle of the almighty.

Nothing in the scriptures has any more power than a fortune cookie, unless you buy into the specious claims of eternal salvation -- and those who can deliver it to you.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
_Gazelam
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Roger

Post by _Gazelam »

Thanks for your post.

When my turn to teach comes up I like to make my own lesons. It forces me to study and learn something. I consider using the manuals somewhat of a crutch, for myself anyway.

How many times have they heard this before? I don't know. I have reflected on what I said in this lesson while at work ever since I gave it. I was thinking, because Adam had given all things on earth a name, then could this be why all things fell with him when he fell? He had been given dominion over all things on the Earth. Notice that it was the Father who named both Adam and Jesus. The plan of salvation, includeing the Fall and the Atonement, were part of the Fathers plan from the beginning.

I am not a numerologist by any means. I have always thought that that sort of bussiness was silly. From what I have read regarding Jehovahs witnesses they seem to invest a great deal in that sort of thing, to their own misfortune.

As for Christ being King, there are a large number of scriptures explaining this clearly. Jer. 10:10, Acts 17:7, 2 Ne. 10:14, D&C 45:59

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Gaz, so your Quorum gets a variety of teachers? By design or fault :-)? That can be a good thing. I'm sure you make it so. You say:
I was thinking, because Adam had given all things on earth a name, then could this be why all things fell with him when he fell? He had been given dominion over all things on the Earth. Notice that it was the Father who named both Adam and Jesus. The plan of salvation, includeing the Fall and the Atonement, were part of the Fathers plan from the beginning.

Why do you 'think' all things "fell" with Adam? My understanding of "dominion over...", it was given to the human race. Not just to Adam in the garden, but humans were/are stewards of earth's flora and fauna. Ain't no buddy here but us to tend "God's" creations!

Who else but "the Father" could have named Adam? As for naming Jesus, don't Fathers (and Moms) generally do that?

I think taking the mytholpgy of Genesis as factual leads to MUCH speculation and wonder not intended by its author.

Most "Creation Stories", such as Native American's Turtle, the Lurianic Kabbalists, etc are told as explainations of what they don't pretend to understand in scientific terms. IF that is difficult now--and it is--can you imagine the absolute immposibility of claiming to know the process in "flat-earth centering-the-universe" times??!!!!

As you know, i personally, cannot believe the "fall and the atonement" being designed into "the plan" by "God". Here again it seems to me to be fabricated--built--into the mosaic as a part of the big-picture. As such it suffices to tell an ancient story.

However, as an essential to understanding and advancing humanity it misses the mark; except to those believing it. Even to those professing belief, they differ little, if in any way, from non-believers. Assuming in most other ways the two groups share similar demographics.

Believing as i do does not diminish in any way my respect for, and gratitude to, those ancients who had little alternative but to believe the stories of their times. They worked for them.

Yes, they contain "wisdom" still applicable in our time. However their "science" is not to be depended upon. IMSCO that is.
You say:
When my turn to teach comes up I like to make my own lesons. It forces me to study and learn something. I consider using the manuals somewhat of a crutch, for myself anyway. (bold added, in respect:-)

Gaz, you're an interesting guy, at an interesting time of life with a growing family, spousal and parental resposibilities that reign supreme in Your own garden. Don't let anything drive You from it. (I think that is the lesson to be considered from Adam's story:-) Warm regards, Roger
_Gazelam
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Mendacity

Post by _Gazelam »

I think the appropriate text fro your expressed concern is Luke 15:11-32

Image

The Prodigal Son is the perfect application. The Son did not want to live by the rules of the Fathers house, and went his own way. As bad as he was and all the trouble he caused, he was welcomed back with open arms on condition of repentence.

All children are wecome back in full on condition of repentence. As long as you don't die in your sins, or are rebellious till judgement day.

The point of this life is to gain the culture of heaven. if you do not, then you wil go to where you will be comfortable.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_MormonMendacity
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Re: Mendacity

Post by _MormonMendacity »

Gazelam wrote:The Prodigal Son is the perfect application. The Son did not want to live by the rules of the Fathers house, and went his own way. As bad as he was and all the trouble he caused, he was welcomed back with open arms on condition of repentence.

All children are wecome back in full on condition of repentence. As long as you don't die in your sins, or are rebellious till judgement day.

The point of this life is to gain the culture of heaven. if you do not, then you wil go to where you will be comfortable.

Gaz

"...on condition of repentence..." That's not love, Gaz, that's arrogance.

"If you don't do as I say...you can go to..." -- you know the rest.

"You submit to me...I will accept you."

This is the eternal struggle of the rich and powerful over the poor, the baron over the serf, the king over the subject. As long as the one who's starving complies, he gets fed, otherwise he suffers.

This is not about love...it's about power and getting the followers to buy into the notion that "god" is directing these conditions. It is what gives the prophets and priests power over the common man and woman.

If you read the mythologies of the ancient world, you will see that the Christian/Mormon god has exactly the same human frailties and emotions as Zeus and the other gods. They all set up a litany of illogical rules and supporting stories in the canon of scripture -- Adam 'fell', you are cursed, I kill my son, you believe he can save you, you be baptized, you pay tithing, you go to the temple, you don't doubt and think, and then you can come back to my presence -- and then his oracles tell us, "...if there are faults, they are the faults of men, wherefore condemn not the things of god."

I'm surprised that so many people don't see the ruse in all this. I'm NOT surprised that the scriptures only support the ruse and don't enlighten the followers -- they were hand-picked by the prophets to support the ruse.

I'm ashamed I bought into it so fully for over forty years.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
_Gazelam
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Standing in Holy places

Post by _Gazelam »

Mendacity

Lets say you were going to open your house up to a renter, you had a spare room in the house and could use the extra money.

Now lets say that the one you let rent the room was a Black man who loved his rap music, didn't see your problem with the thumping bass and the explicit lyrics. He was paying his rent, why should you care if he brought women over and let them stay the night. How about his shelf in the fridge with his 40's and the smoke from his pipe flowing out of the room when his homies came out to use the bathroom?

Could he stay? Isnt it just a matter of opinion, a minor cultural problem? Why would you feel the need to be judgemental about his culture?

Would people who see the comings and goings out of your home begin to run down your name and judge you by this mans associates who frequent your home?

Gaz
Last edited by Steeler [Crawler] on Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Gaz, i'm not Mendacity but, you dissapoint me in making such an absurde comparison between "God" and man. IF that is what you are doing? As it appears??

As you are flaunting the HG at every opportunity, i can't help but wonder... Like WOW!! AND, to make it racist???

REPENT MY HOLY FRIEND!!! Roger :-(
_MormonMendacity
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Re: Standing in Holy places

Post by _MormonMendacity »

Gazelam wrote:Mendacity

Lets say you were going to open your house up to a renetr, you had a spare room in the house and could use the extra money.

Now lets say that the one you let rent the room was a Black man who loved his rap music, didn't see your problem with the thumping bass and the explicit lyrics. He was paying his rent, why should you care if he brought women over and let them stay the night. How about his shelf in the fridge with his 40's and the smoke from his pipe flowing out of the room when his homies came out to use the bathroom?

Could he stay? Isnt it just a matter of opinion, a minor cultural problem? Why would you feel the need to be judgemental about his culture?

Would people who see the comings and goings out of your home begin to run down your name and judge you by this mans associates who frequent your home?

Gaz

I have a black son? Wow! I'm very cool!

Now look up the word "NON-SEQUITUR" in the dictionary where you found "MENDACITY".

You are a perfect Mormon, Gaz, and a perfect tape recorder, too.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
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