LDS Church failures of trust

[_why me]

Strange enough, these days I count less on inspiration from lds local leaders. I counted on it more when I was younger. I have tried to understand why I feel this way, and yet, I have difficulty pinpointing my reasoning except with the following: I have this belief that local leaders may be becoming just a tad more corruptible with all the changes happening in our societies. By corruption, I mean influenced by the world around them. Lets face it, local leaders are human beings who face the same turmoil that we all can face in the workplace, in the community, and in the home. The ways of the world, seem to be more a part of the local leaders' lives. Hence, they can become more corruptible when dealing with issues which take more inspiration than human thought.

I know that for myself, when it comes to sin confessing I am a coward. And I would definitely pick and choose my confessor wisely because of such corruptibility in the world. Hopefully, I am wrong about this...but this is something that I thought much about since I am a sinner. But I cannot rely on the inspiration of local leaders unless I know that they are truly inspired.

[_why me]

One of the most difficult issues I had as a believer was church leaders thinking they were inspired while giving horrible, destructive, nonsensical, unhealthy advice to members. Over and over again, Bishops role played a therapist... while they may have thought they were inspired their advice was counterproductive and, in many cases, hurtful. I've seen marriages harmed, mental health issues worsened, children hurt....

I agree that this is a major problem, especially among local leadership. These guys have had it pounded it into their heads that, as Church leaders, they are inspired as they deal with members, which can lead local leaders to assume that whatever advice they give it must have come from God and be right. Often, it is not, particularly in a counseling role. I wish the Church would be more upfront about local leaders' serious lack of training and expertise in counseling situations, and admit that leaders often are NOT inspired or led by the Lord in everything that comes out of their mouths. Members trust these untrained leaders far too much, and many leaders are overconfident in their ability to counsel members on very difficult issues because they think they are always inspired or enjoy greater discernment than the average bear. These types of attitudes can and do lead to terrible results.

And it is here that I think that corruptibility can come in. It is not so much that they are not trained, but that some have been influenced by the world and hence, they make worldly decisions without devine guidance from above. Once members recognize that local leaders are human who live in this very human world, maybe just maybe, these members will be inspired just enough not to trust all that comes from the mouth of a local leader.

[_Polygamy Porter]

But I cannot rely on the inspiration of local leaders unless I know that they are truly inspired.

Wow, circular logic at its best!

So tell me, how does one discern whether or not a person is TRULY inspired?

Brigham young told his followers that his speech was just like the scriptures. Yet today most of what he pontificated has been tossed into the personal opinion bucket.

How high up in the LDS Inc chain of command do you allow yourself to decide whether someone is "inspired"?

[_Polygamy Porter]

I agree with you that training is sorely lacking. This has been a big compliant of mine to leaders and when I have lead. there is no continuity. It is here is the handbook and go to it. Bishops are trained by stake leaders who are not really trained. There is no continuity among how certain things should be applied. Freedom to lead and run a unit is nice to some extent and a persons style and inspiration should not be hampered too much. But it would seem that some sort of standardized training for bishops and SPs at least should exist.

But, but, how can this be? This is the one and only twoo choich of god! These are all men of god! How can they do wrong?

Basically what you are saying is, other churches "paid clergy" is not such a bad idea?

[_Mary]

Well this is all anecdotal I know, but I think the 'spiritual' authoritarian nature of the church is quite dangerous really, and can cause a lot of (I am sure with the best of intentions) unneccessary hurt and anxiety.

Two guys I know were told by their bishops, in the one case to not marry, and the other, to marry particular girls. I dated one of the guys (the one who was told not to marry a particular girl) and he was absolutely grief stricken because she had ended up marrying someone that beat her, and he had really loved her.

The guy who was told to marry the girl, has ended up in a pretty loveless marriage, and has already left once. My husband, who he told, (My husband is a nevermo) couldn't believe the kind of 'magical' thinking (good quote from another board) that led to this guy making a life changing decision based on the well intentioned advise of a bishop.

I could go on and on, in my own life of blessings etc that were specific and totally wrong. I only came to realise that when a case far worse than mine. (A couple in my stake were told in a blessing that their child would recover, only to see the baby die).

I always thought they were inspired these priesthood holders, and the truth is they were guilty of nothing more than wishful thinking and good intentions. Thing is I was always the one in the wrong for not being faithful enough, when in truth, that was far from the truth, I totally believed at the time and had every faith that what they were telling me was the direct and unadulterated word of God.

I think there is a lot of fortune telling in the church under the guise of priesthood leadership including pb's. It is one of the more destructive elements of church culture I think.

Apologies if I am not explaining myself well. Been a long day!

[_Jason Bourne]

But I cannot rely on the inspiration of local leaders unless I know that they are truly inspired.

Wow, circular logic at its best!

So tell me, how does one discern whether or not a person is TRULY inspired?

Brigham young told his followers that his speech was just like the scriptures. Yet today most of what he pontificated has been tossed into the personal opinion bucket.

How high up in the LDS Inc chain of command do you allow yourself to decide whether someone is "inspired"?

BY also said that members should not assume brother Brigham always was correct and they should get knowledge ontheir own. He said he might teach them something flase on purpose to see if they would just blindly follow.

[Schreech]

Church courts were also adminstered haphazardly -- and I mean by that: by inspiration. Some would be brought before a court for sexual improprieties and others wouldn't. Some would be excommunicated for adultery and some wouldn't. Some would be disfellowshipped for petting and some wouldn't. Directions from Salt Lake seemed vague and inspiration-directed decisions seemed arbitrary.

Yes. I agree, but for different reasons.... I think the old adage...

It's not what you know, but who you know..... applies to the church as an organisation. Not only in terms of church callings, but also church discipline.
Children of stake leadership were less likely to be excommunicated than children of inactives for example....and they knew it....Children of stake leadership were more likely to be called into high leadership.....and they knew it....

That was my experience anyway....

[_Jason Bourne]

I agree with you that training is sorely lacking. This has been a big compliant of mine to leaders and when I have lead. there is no continuity. It is here is the handbook and go to it. Bishops are trained by stake leaders who are not really trained. There is no continuity among how certain things should be applied. Freedom to lead and run a unit is nice to some extent and a persons style and inspiration should not be hampered too much. But it would seem that some sort of standardized training for bishops and SPs at least should exist.

But, but, how can this be? This is the one and only twoo choich of god! These are all men of god! How can they do wrong?

Basically what you are saying is, other churches "paid clergy" is not such a bad idea?

Yepper PP. I think a paid trained clergy is a great idea and would like to see the LDS Church adopt it from Bishop on up.

[_Roger Morrison]

I agree with you that training is sorely lacking. This has been a big compliant of mine to leaders and when I have lead. there is no continuity. It is here is the handbook and go to it. Bishops are trained by stake leaders who are not really trained. There is no continuity among how certain things should be applied. Freedom to lead and run a unit is nice to some extent and a persons style and inspiration should not be hampered too much. But it would seem that some sort of standardized training for bishops and SPs at least should exist.

But, but, how can this be? This is the one and only twoo choich of god! These are all men of god! How can they do wrong?

Basically what you are saying is, other churches "paid clergy" is not such a bad idea?

Yepper PP. I think a paid trained clergy is a great idea and would like to see the LDS Church adopt it from Bishop on up.

Amen Bro! From one who was one...BP...and sat in all manner of "training/leadership" meetings. A loose-term with varying degrees of expertice and consequent credibility. "One funeral at a time!" Warm regards, Roger

[_why me]

But I cannot rely on the inspiration of local leaders unless I know that they are truly inspired.

Wow, circular logic at its best!

So tell me, how does one discern whether or not a person is TRULY inspired?

Brigham young told his followers that his speech was just like the scriptures. Yet today most of what he pontificated has been tossed into the personal opinion bucket.

How high up in the LDS Inc chain of command do you allow yourself to decide whether someone is "inspired"?

Difficult to say. But I do know that it can be a problem to believe in inspiration because we seem to be living in uninspiring times. At least this is my opinion. I cannot trust the wisdom of a bishop until I know that he is wise. And I cannot trust inspiration, until I know a person is inspired. But how to make that judgement is a difficult one.

We have all heard stories of bishops making the wrong decision and giving the wrong advice. I believe that we all live in perilous times and local church leaders are not immune to the time that we are all living in. Local leaders can be influenced by the real life that they experience outside the church and hence, deaden their inspiration.