Our part in the feast

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Our part in the feast

Post by _Gazelam »

Image

Luke 14:16-24
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

This parable contrasts the Jews, who had the gospel, to gentiles who did not have it.

According to the prevailing social custom, invitations to the feast had been issued and accepted in advance. Then on the day appointed the servant had gone forth to remind the guests who had agreed to come. These then broke their promises and found excuses to stay away because they did not want to come.

"The covenant people, Israel, were the specially invited guests. They had been bidden long enough aforetime, and by their own profession as the Lord's own had agreed to be partakers of the feast. When all was ready, on the appointed day, they were severally summoned by the Messenger who had been sent by the Father; he was even then in their midst. But the cares of riches, the allurement of material things, and the pleasures of social and domestic life had engrossed them; and they prayed to be excused or irreverently declared they could not or would not come.

"then the gladsome invitation was to be carried to the gentiles, who were looked upon as spiritually poor, maimed, halt, and blind. And later, even the pagans beyond the walls, strangers in the gates of the Holy city, would be bidden to the supper. These, suprised at the unexpected summons, would hesitate, until by gentle urging and effective assurance that they were really included among the bidden guests, they would feel themselves constrained or compelled to come. The possibility of some of the discourteous ones arriveing later, after they had attended to their more absorbing affairs, is indicated in the Lord's closing words: 'For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper' " (
Jesus the Christ Talmage, p.452.)

That the Lords great feast is intended for the members of the Church is without question. But many lose their seat because they are caught up in the things of the world. Thus those who are the masters servants are sent to find others.

Numbers 11:5-9
5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:
6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.
7 And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium.
8 And the people went about, and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar, and baked it in pans, and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil.
9 And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.

To be a member of the Lords church requires sacrifice, it is to learn dependance upon the Lord. It requires sacrifice, a setting aside of the things of the world that give at times pleasure. Lets compare the above vs to a New Testament verse:

John 6:31-33
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

And the symbolism of this is taught later in the text:
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

D&C 20:77
77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

When we eat the bread of the sacrament, we are to remember that Christ made possible the resurrection. Were it not for him, we would have no part in the resurrection ourselves.

There is another sacrament prayer that reminds us of another part of the feast. The drink.
79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen

Image

Jesus rested one day in Samaria on his way to Gallilee.
Samaritans were seen as "rebellious". They were rebellious Jews, not worshipping in Jerusalem, their ancestors were not allowed to help build the temple there. They studied the five books of Moses only.

For Christ to send his disciples to a Samaritan town to get meat was shocking. These people were seen as unclean, to say nothing of their food. But Jesus saw meet for his Fathers kingdom here.

John 4:6-14
6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

What does the water in the sacrament represent?

Bread = Immortality

Water = Everlasting Life

The Gospel of Christ are a set of commandments to help of overcome sin and decay, to be a creative and exalting force in this world and the world to come.

Luke 16:24
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

D&C 63:23
23 But unto him that keepeth my commandments I will give the mysteries of my kingdom, and the same shall be in him a well of living water, springing up unto everlasting life.

As servants went forth to invite to the feast, the same is true of us.

Mat. 10:40-42
40 ¶ He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.
42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

There is more on the table than bread and water.

D&C 101:39-40
39 When men are called unto mine everlasting gospel, and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men;
40 They are called to be the savor of men; therefore, if that salt of the earth lose its savor, behold, it is thenceforth good for nothing only to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men.

" Salt is a preservative. It preserves food from corruption and keeps it wholesome and acceptable. The disciples are likewise called to be preservatives on earth. They are called out of the world to stand as witnesses against creeping relativity and dilution of time-honored values. They are summoned by the Savior to declare with love and boldness those principles of light and virtue, those absolute truths decreed by an all-wise God and his prophets.
.... A modern revelation declared: "They [the saints] were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the saviors of men; inasmuch as they are not the saviors of men, they are as salt that has lost its savor' (D&C 103:9-10). We note with interest the number of times in scripture the Lord warns the wicked that inasmuch as they cast out the prophets and the righteous element from among them, they are ripe for destruction. To dispel the nucleous of faith is to sever the very lifeline which could pull them through the storms of life into a safe harbor (see Alma 10:22-23; Helaman 13:12)." (Robert L. Millet,
An Eye Single to the Glory of God, pp.43-45.)

Elder Carlos E. Asay explained that "salt will not lose its savor with age. Savor is lost through mixture and contamination.... Flavor and quality flee a man when he contaminates his mind with unclean thoughts, desecrates his mouth by speaking less than the truth, and misapplies his strength in performing evil acts." (CR, April 1980, p.60.)

D&C 103:9-10
9 For they were set to be a light unto the world, and to be the saviors of men;
10 And inasmuch as they are not the saviors of men, they are as salt that has lost its savor, and is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot of men.

We are representatives of our master. The Lord of the feast. Our desire is to draw all to the feast. Our actions are watched.
When we add the world fashions, the world slang of speech, the world philosophies to our speech and attitude, we mix the culture we should represent with lesser spice, and lose our savor.

We make the gospel taste good. We are to be the fruit of the tree. Those outside the gospel should want to be a part of it by looking upon us and our families and desire the fruit.

"....In one aspect the Church is more like a hospital or an aid station, provided for those who are ill and want to get well, where one can get an infusion of spiritual nutrition and a supply of sustaining water...." Jeffrey R. Holland

One of the grandest concepts in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the concept that men can and should be more than passive observers in the cause of saving souls. One Church leader taught: "In our preexistent state.. we made a certain agreement with the Almighty... We agreed... to be not only saviors for ourselves but measureably, saviors for the whole human family. We went into a partnership with the Lord. The working out of the plan became then not merely the Father's work, and the Savior's work, but also our work" (John A. Widtsoe,
Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine, Oct. 1934, p.189)

I testify that we are to be the Salt, that brings our the flavor of the gospel , that all might desire the bread and Water of the gospel that will sustain them and bring them Everlasting Life.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen


(Priesthood lesson fromt he third week of November)

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

Hi Gaz... this may sound strange to you but one of the things that always bothered me is the idea of a chosen people. It sounds so archaic, unhealthy, strange.

And, the idea that I was one of the chosen (as a believer) REALLY bothered me. I just did not like the idea that God had a few chosen folks (even if I were one of them). I know some people like the idea of being one of the few elect who get to live with God but it ALWAYS really disturbed me.. very elitist and arrogant if you know what I mean.

I get the impression that even the brethren are trying to downplay this whole idea...

:-)

~dancer~
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
Posts: 5659
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Truth Dancer

Post by _Gazelam »

What you are talking about is the Abrahamic Covenant.

Abraham first received the gospel by baptism (which is the covenant of salvation); then he had confered upon him the higher priesthood, and he entered into celestial marriage (which is the covenant of exaltation), gaining assurance thereby that he would have eternal increase; finally he received a promise that all of these blessings would be offered to all of his mortal posterity.

Abra. 2:6-11
6 But I, Abraham, and Lot, my brother’s son, prayed unto the Lord, and the Lord appeared unto me, and said unto me: Arise, and take Lot with thee; for I have purposed to take thee away out of Haran, and to make of thee a minister to bear my name in a strange land which I will give unto thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession, when they hearken to my voice.
7 For I am the Lord thy God; I dwell in heaven; the earth is my footstool; I stretch my hand over the sea, and it obeys my voice; I cause the wind and the fire to be my chariot; I say to the mountains—Depart hence—and behold, they are taken away by a whirlwind, in an instant, suddenly.
8 My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee.
9 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and Priesthood unto all nations;
10 And I will bless them through thy name; for as many as receive this Gospel shall be called after thy name, and shall be accounted thy seed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their father;
11 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy seed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this right shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.

(see also D&C 132:29-50)

Included in the divine promises to Abraham was the assurance that Christ would come through his lineage, and the assurance that Abrahams posterity would receive certain choice promised lands as an eternal inheritance. (Abra. 2; Gen. 17; 22:15-18; Gal. 3.)

All of these promises lumped together are called the Abrahamic covenant. This covenant was renewed with Isaac (Gen. 24:60; 26:1-4, 24) and again with Jacob. (Gen. 28; 35:9-13; 48:3-4.) Those portions of it which pertain to personal exaltation and eternal increase are renewed with each member of the house of Israel who enters the order of celestial marriage; through that order the participating parties become inheritors of all the blesings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (D&C 132; Rom. 9:4; Gal. 3; 4.)

(Mormon Doctrine, p.13)

So you see, the chosen people are not as exclusive as you think. When the priesthood blesings are received you are adopted into the family of Israel, and in celestial marriage the Abrahamic covenant is passed on to the couple.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Post by _Mercury »

truth dancer wrote:Hi Gaz... this may sound strange to you but one of the things that always bothered me is the idea of a chosen people. It sounds so archaic, unhealthy, strange.

And, the idea that I was one of the chosen (as a believer) REALLY bothered me. I just did not like the idea that God had a few chosen folks (even if I were one of them). I know some people like the idea of being one of the few elect who get to live with God but it ALWAYS really disturbed me.. very elitist and arrogant if you know what I mean.

I get the impression that even the brethren are trying to downplay this whole idea...

:-)

~dancer~


It bothered me as well. It seems like such a faux eliteist thing to say, as its purpose is to pump up the egos of Mormons in order to perpetuate the mind virus of Mormonism.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Polygamy Porter
_Emeritus
Posts: 2204
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:04 am

Post by _Polygamy Porter »

Gaz,

This place is for discussing the facts of Mormonism, not the fairy tales.
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Gaz, thanks for sharing this PH lesson. It does stimulate thought. Affecting not everyone the same way, as is obvious by the responses thus far. What did you expect from readers? Pasted below from the "lesson" that i'll respond to in bold:
Included in the divine promises to Abraham was the assurance that Christ would come through his lineage, and the assurance that Abrahams posterity would receive certain choice promised lands as an eternal inheritance. (Abra. 2; Gen. 17; 22:15-18; Gal. 3.)

For this to have any credibility personally, one must accept Abraham in the traditional Judeo-Christian idea as "chosen". IMSCO, there is no EVIDENCE of that. As i read about Abraham he displays no attributes that i would attribute to "Godliness" which is what i would expect of one "favoured" by "God".

Galations was written by a Pharasee. As such Paul's understanding of Jesus is coloured by his messianic conditioning. Yet he does stress the supremacy of charity, 1Cor,13:1-8. A passage too easily dismissed by the elitist exclusivity that LDSism is built upon--considered by many to be "shifting sand."

All of these promises lumped together are called the Abrahamic covenant. This covenant was renewed with Isaac (Gen. 24:60; 26:1-4, 24) and again with Jacob. (Gen. 28; 35:9-13; 48:3-4.) Those portions of it which pertain to personal exaltation and eternal increase are renewed with each member of the house of Israel who enters the order of celestial marriage; through that order the participating parties become inheritors of all the blesings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (D&C 132; Rom. 9:4; Gal. 3; 4.)

This according to 'Mormon Doctrine' and BRM's interpretation of traditional Judeo-Christianism. Forever disputed by nonLDS in that "lump".

In reference to the Banquet Parable, "I" question the interpretation, AND the LDS elaboration, built upon it. "I" think it very simply suggests the "chosen" and "elite", because of arrogance and self-righteousness will be left asking, "...why not us Lord, look what we did in your name..." And Jesus replied, "...I know all that, BUT did you feed, heal, visit, love unconditionally and make peace in the world...?" Seems to me Paul makes that quite clear in Gal,3:28, "...all are one in Christ Jesus."



(Mormon Doctrine, p.13)

So you see, the chosen people are not as exclusive as you think. When the priesthood blesings are received you are adopted into the family of Israel, and in celestial marriage the Abrahamic covenant is passed on to the couple.

Don't You see, there are NO chosen people! There is NO such thing as being "...adopted into the family of Israel..."! Such things are a part of the mythology used to tell "a" story upon which traditions are maintained. For better or worse??
Gaz

I respectfully suggest LDSism should, along with most other proponents of JudeoChristianism, get back to Jesus and HIS teachings! Then "Peace-on-Earth, and Goodwill Among Men" would be than jingle at X-mas. Work that into yer lesson, Bro. Warm regards, Roger
_MormonMendacity
_Emeritus
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:56 am

Post by _MormonMendacity »

Polygamy Porter wrote:Gaz,

This place is for discussing the facts of Mormonism, not the fairy tales.

Let's analyze Gaz.

PP, why do you think that he accepts ancient writings without questioning them?

VR, do you think Gaz enjoys believing in this concept of choseness because he feels elated (i.e. ego-pumped) by knowing he is one of "them"?

TD, do you think that being one of the chosen justifies these chosen people in their disregard of others?

RM, what is blinding Gaz so that he can't see that there are no chosen people?

I'm interested in why it is so easy for people accept these mythologies without question and why.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Is it really a feast if all they're serving is day-old crap?
_MormonMendacity
_Emeritus
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:56 am

Post by _MormonMendacity »

Runtu wrote:Is it really a feast if all they're serving is day-old crap?

Cynic. (And it's 2,000 year old crap.)
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

Hi Gaz...

So you see, the chosen people are not as exclusive as you think. When the priesthood blesings are received you are adopted into the family of Israel, and in celestial marriage the Abrahamic covenant is passed on to the couple.


Gaz, only those who believe a certain way are part of the club. That is exclusive! How many times have we all heard we are one of the chosesn because we are in the LDS church? Over and over the mantra continues. God had a "chosen" people right? All the folks who will not make it into the CKHL are NOT one of the chosen right?

Now to be honest I do not think there is such a place and even if there was it doesn't sound like a place in which I would even remotely enjoy so I'm totally fine with not being one of the chosen if it all turned out to be true but my point is, the idea of being one of the elite club just REALLY didn't resonate with me!

Kind of like how I felt when a country club wouldn't allow people of color on the course... ya know? I would never have joined such a club and I would not want to be a part of an exclusive club in heaven.

~dancer~
Post Reply