"Reasons" for bans on coffee, earrings, swearing..

[_Polygamy Porter]

The Word of Wisdom is one of the greatest things about the lds church and yes, it was a head of its time when it was implemented.

First, alcohol has caused great damage to family life. And although it may be true, that one can drink a glass of wine a day without harm or one cup of coffee a day without risk or smoke one cigarette a day, without the threat of cancer, but unfortunately, many people cannot stop with just one. And it is here that the problem exists. There are many a alcoholics who started in their downward slide with that first glass of wine, beer or whiskey. And many a cancer patients began their addiction with that first cigarette and of course, many of addicted coffee drinkers started their addiction with that first cup of coffee.

Where I live, alcohol consumption is hitting the roof because of cheaper booze prices. And this in turn, creates more abuse in the home, and it is usually the woman and the child who suffer. And coffee consumption is very high, and of course coffee is a stimulant.

The word of wisdom saves lives and that is why is it one of the greatest things about the WoW. In fact, I can say with a straight face, that the lds church has saved lives through its idea of the word of wisdom.

Now about the abstaining from sex before marriage. Recently, there was an article in my newspaper about the increases of STD's. Inside the article were reports that children as young as 12 were catching STD's. Sorry, such youngsters should be playing with barbie dolls and not having sex. I see no good to come of having sex when one is below the age of adulthood. Again the lds church has been a head of its time in its cautioning about no premarital sex.

Oh reahillllly... ahead of its time?

If you could just step outside of your garments and view your statements, you would see just how duped you really are by LDS Inc.

For every Mormon who was "saved" by the reguritated puritan movement which smith dubbed the WoW, for every life that you claim was saved by this non divine message, there are THOUSANDS of non Mormons that do not abuse any substance, all without a single wave of a Mormon temple recommend being waved over their heads...

Please do us all a favor, stop regurgitating the drivel you slurp up in the Mormon chapel and go educate yourself of the REALITY of non Mormons. K?

The point is there is good and bad everywhere, in and out of the Mormon cult. I hate to break this to you, but Mormons do not have the corner on the decent, clean, ethical market and they did not invent NICE.

[_why me]

True enough. I think I said so too. One glass does not kill nor does it do harm. However, abuse in the home is often alcohol related. Not to mention lung cancer due to smoking. One cigarette does not kill but...I can say with confidence, that every alcoholic that I have known began with that first drink and it is here that the problem begins. With that first drink. And every man or woman who became abusive with alcohol consumption became so, with that first drink.

No, the WoW is one of the greatest things about the lds church and lets face, now that there is non-alcoholic beer, wine, etc, to obstain from alcohol is not so bad nor is there a stigma attached anymore.

[_Polygamy Porter]

No, the WoW is one of the greatest things about the lds church and lets face, now that there is non-alcoholic beer, wine, etc, to obstain from alcohol is not so bad nor is there a stigma attached anymore.

Horse puckie.
The temperance movement was in full swing long before Joe had ANY "revelations". He was known for taking others work and trying to pass it off as divinely reveled to him alone.

Look it up and please stop regurgitation the drivel you were force feed.

[_harmony]

True enough. I think I said so too. One glass does not kill nor does it do harm. However, abuse in the home is often alcohol related. Not to mention lung cancer due to smoking. One cigarette does not kill but...I can say with confidence, that every alcoholic that I have known began with that first drink and it is here that the problem begins. With that first drink. And every man or woman who became abusive with alcohol consumption became so, with that first drink.

No, the WoW is one of the greatest things about the lds church and lets face, now that there is non-alcoholic beer, wine, etc, to obstain from alcohol is not so bad nor is there a stigma attached anymore.

There has always been a non-alcoholic wine lookalike: it's called grape juice.

Are you saying that non-alcoholic beer and wine are acceptable substitutes to the heirarchy of the LDS church? That's news to me. What about decaffienated coffee? Is that acceptable?

Oh, and some of the most surprising abuse comes from ultra-religious homes where drinking and smoking are taboo. Unless you're saying there is no abuse in ultra-religious homes? In which case, you just called my DIL a liar. She was raised in an ultra-religious home, home schooled, rigid father, depressed mother, and she was regularly thrown out the door, out the window, and against the wall. I think her father thought he could beat the devil out of her. And who would know? No close neighbors, no nosey school teachers to report him, and the church pastor wasn't about to get involved. She's lucky she escaped without permanent physical injury. Emotionally, that's a different story. We treat her kindly; she's never known family who did that.

[_Who Knows]

The WOW is nothing special. Becoming a raging alcoholic, or taking up cigarette smoking, carries their own consequences - whether you're Mormon or not. There are cigarette smoking/alcoholic Mormons. There are non-cigarette smoking/non-alcoholic non Mormons.

And as PP pointed out, some people prior to Joseph Smith's time were against alcohol/tobacco.

So again, tell me what's so special about the WOW?

[_Mary]

Marg, this part of your post interested me...

In my readings on the Net of most religious people I interpret an attitude of moral superiority, that they are better people than those outside their religious group. And this is particularly the case with Mormons.

I do agree that there seems to be a tendency in some to use religion as a stick with which to beat other people, as you say definitely not confined to the LDS church, and my experience on LDS boards, interestingly enough, taught me that not everyone has that sense of superiority. I think that there are many LDS who really do hold their 'truth claims' in humility...but again just as many do not....

I know in making my 'list' of reasons to stay and go, the 'elitist' feeling that many seemed to hold, was one of my reasons to go.

In a way it is easy to get oneself dug into that mindset. The church claims ultimate authenticity over all the most meaningful of rituals and rites of passage in life from birth to death and all the living in between.
Baptism (only LDS baptism is valid in eyes of God) Marriage (only temple marriage is valid in eyes of God) Birth (only children BIC will be joined to their parents in the hereafter) Those controls over families are powerful I think.

We (the LDS church) have the ultimate authority to make for truly authentic, happy and binding family and life relationships.

It's a heady cocktail. Only I as a Mormon, can live a truly authentic life.
It takes a long time to extracate oneself from that mindset.

[_why me]

True enough. I think I said so too. One glass does not kill nor does it do harm. However, abuse in the home is often alcohol related. Not to mention lung cancer due to smoking. One cigarette does not kill but...I can say with confidence, that every alcoholic that I have known began with that first drink and it is here that the problem begins. With that first drink. And every man or woman who became abusive with alcohol consumption became so, with that first drink.

No, the WoW is one of the greatest things about the lds church and lets face, now that there is non-alcoholic beer, wine, etc, to obstain from alcohol is not so bad nor is there a stigma attached anymore.

There has always been a non-alcoholic wine lookalike: it's called grape juice.

Are you saying that non-alcoholic beer and wine are acceptable substitutes to the heirarchy of the LDS church? That's news to me. What about decaffienated coffee? Is that acceptable?
.

Yes this is what I am saying. I have been to two lds parties where non-alcoholic wine was served. I was quite surprised by it especially when my ex-wife allowed it to happen. As Bob Dylan sang: The times there are a changing.

Now of course you will get the old guard claiming to avoid the appearence of evil but...the new guard...seem to have no qualms to drink the non-alcoholic wine. I would assume that decafe coffee would be acceptable, if the taboo depended on the caffeine. As for myself, I love decafe, sugarfree ice tea. What to do? :=)

[_why me]

Oh, and some of the most surprising abuse comes from ultra-religious homes where drinking and smoking are taboo. Unless you're saying there is no abuse in ultra-religious homes? In which case, you just called my DIL a liar. She was raised in an ultra-religious home, home schooled, rigid father, depressed mother, and she was regularly thrown out the door, out the window, and against the wall. I think her father thought he could beat the devil out of her. And who would know? No close neighbors, no nosey school teachers to report him, and the church pastor wasn't about to get involved. She's lucky she escaped without permanent physical injury. Emotionally, that's a different story. We treat her kindly; she's never known family who did that.

I know this too. And I have no problem with what you are saying. But I did say that alcohol has been responsible for much abuse and it is better not to drink. But abuse can occur wherever it can show its head, including in lds homes or in religious homes. The world is a messy place at times. And alcohol seems to make it messier for many families. Better to abstain or have a non-alcoholic brew.

[_Mary]

Just to confirm what PP wrote about the temperence movement.

Development of the Temperance Movement

Two main periods are to be distinguished. The first, which began in 1830, was fairly general, but substantially affected only the British Isles and the Germanic countries. The second began in 1850; after a decade it extended to Scandinavia, and after thirty years to Germany. It was, however, only at the close of the century that it attained its great importance, by gradually obtaining a footing in all civilized countries. In both periods the immediate stimulus came from the United States of North America. The chief distinction between the earlier and later movements is generally expressed thus: that the former laid the emphasis on temperance, the latter on total abstinence. But this hardly even reaches the root of the matter. Apart from the fact that even in the earlier period, teetotal societies existed in England (from 1832), refraining from spirituous beverages was at that time practically equivalent to total abstinence, as other intoxicating drinks were almost unknown, or at least their injurious qualities were much underrated. Beer was then strongly recommended (even in popular songs) as a "most delicious drink"; thus the brewing industry was encouraged. It was thought that poisonous substances existed only in distilled spirits, consequently nothing was said of combatting alcohol, but always distilled spirits, and this through abstinence. The earlier movement is better characterized by calling it the era of naïve enthusiasm, supported especially by religious sentiments. Clergymen were then the principal leaders of the movement, and the pledge was its highest attainment.

My bold. From New Advent Website

[_harmony]

True enough. I think I said so too. One glass does not kill nor does it do harm. However, abuse in the home is often alcohol related. Not to mention lung cancer due to smoking. One cigarette does not kill but...I can say with confidence, that every alcoholic that I have known began with that first drink and it is here that the problem begins. With that first drink. And every man or woman who became abusive with alcohol consumption became so, with that first drink.

No, the WoW is one of the greatest things about the lds church and lets face, now that there is non-alcoholic beer, wine, etc, to obstain from alcohol is not so bad nor is there a stigma attached anymore.

There has always been a non-alcoholic wine lookalike: it's called grape juice.

Are you saying that non-alcoholic beer and wine are acceptable substitutes to the heirarchy of the LDS church? That's news to me. What about decaffienated coffee? Is that acceptable?
.

Yes this is what I am saying. I have been to two lds parties where non-alcoholic wine was served. I was quite surprised by it especially when my ex-wife allowed it to happen. As Bob Dylan sang: The times there are a changing.

Now of course you will get the old guard claiming to avoid the appearence of evil but...the new guard...seem to have no qualms to drink the non-alcoholic wine. I would assume that decafe coffee would be acceptable, if the taboo depended on the caffeine. As for myself, I love decafe, sugarfree ice tea. What to do? :=)

I've had hot tea and iced tea daily for years, as prescribed by my doc for nausea.

What does your bishop say about the decaf and the non-alcoholic beer and wine?