Eternal Marriage?

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_ozemc
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Eternal Marriage?

Post by _ozemc »

Please forgive me if this topic has been exhausted before I got here, but I do have a question as to how can there be a belief in eternal marriage when Jesus himself said (Luke 20:27-38): (See also Matthew 22:23-32)

27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28"Teacher," they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30The second 31and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32Finally, the woman died too. 33Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?"

34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'[c] 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."


It seems pretty clear to me that, according to Jesus, there will be no marriages in Heaven.

I read this passage to my TBM wife, and she told me "Well, I'm not sure if I believe that."

This is from the mouth of Jesus, and she's not sure if she believes it?

Are there any other TBMs out there who discount these words as well?

Why should those of us, who are not Mormon, believe in an "eternal" marriage that has to be performed in a temple, if Jesus Himself said there's no such thing?
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

For what it's worth, I don't think that any of us really know what is going to happen in the next life. We'll have to wait and see.

Thanks for pointing out this scripture, though. It's very enlightening.
_harmony
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Re: Eternal Marriage?

Post by _harmony »

ozemc wrote:Please forgive me if this topic has been exhausted before I got here, but I do have a question as to how can there be a belief in eternal marriage when Jesus himself said (Luke 20:27-38): (See also Matthew 22:23-32)

27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28"Teacher," they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30The second 31and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32Finally, the woman died too. 33Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?"

34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.'[c] 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."


It seems pretty clear to me that, according to Jesus, there will be no marriages in Heaven.

I read this passage to my TBM wife, and she told me "Well, I'm not sure if I believe that."

This is from the mouth of Jesus, and she's not sure if she believes it?

Are there any other TBMs out there who discount these words as well?

Why should those of us, who are not Mormon, believe in an "eternal" marriage that has to be performed in a temple, if Jesus Himself said there's no such thing?


TBM's often discount that which seems to be out of sync. Your wife's reaction is not at all unusual.

It might help if you remember that Mormons don't hold the Bible to be infallible. They don't necessarily believe that the words that are written there are exactly what was said, nor that the concepts that are written there are God-breathed. Mormons don't necessarily hold that ancient prophets recorded things exactly or properly. That belief makes it easy to get around certain inconsistencies in the Bible, and in their own scriptures.
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

I'm rather sure that Mormons interpret those words of Jesus to mean that the ordinance of marriage isn't physically performed in the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, one can continue a marriage there, but cannot commence one there.

This is because He says "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage;" He doesn't say "their marriages end"--a subtle distinction, but one which makes sense in my opinion.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_richardMdBorn
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Post by _richardMdBorn »

Dr. Shades wrote:I'm rather sure that Mormons interpret those words of Jesus to mean that the ordinance of marriage isn't physically performed in the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, one can continue a marriage there, but cannot commence one there.

This is because He says "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage;" He doesn't say "their marriages end"--a subtle distinction, but one which makes sense in my opinion.
Shades is right that that's how TBMs interpret this passage. However, Jesus was asked which one the woman would be married to and responded that people in heaven would be like the angels. The strong implication is that no one is married in heaven.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

richardMdBorn wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:I'm rather sure that Mormons interpret those words of Jesus to mean that the ordinance of marriage isn't physically performed in the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, one can continue a marriage there, but cannot commence one there.

This is because He says "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage;" He doesn't say "their marriages end"--a subtle distinction, but one which makes sense in my opinion.
Shades is right that that's how TBMs interpret this passage. However, Jesus was asked which one the woman would be married to and responded that people in heaven would be like the angels. The strong implication is that no one is married in heaven.


So does that mean the angels aren't married?
_MormonMendacity
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Re: Eternal Marriage?

Post by _MormonMendacity »

ozemc wrote:This is from the mouth of Jesus, and she's not sure if she believes it?

Are there any other TBMs out there who discount these words as well?

Why should those of us, who are not Mormon, believe in an "eternal" marriage that has to be performed in a temple, if Jesus Himself said there's no such thing?

I have an elf named Toenail that sits on my knee while I type on the computer who says Jesus did not say those things.

Does it seem odd to anyone besides me that we quote an ancient text of dubious origins, authenticity, translations, and without external corroboration to settle a question of Eternal Life?

Why don't we quote Gulliver's Travels for the answer to Eternal Life?

I'm just askin'.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
_ozemc
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Re: Eternal Marriage?

Post by _ozemc »

MormonMendacity wrote:
ozemc wrote:This is from the mouth of Jesus, and she's not sure if she believes it?

Are there any other TBMs out there who discount these words as well?

Why should those of us, who are not Mormon, believe in an "eternal" marriage that has to be performed in a temple, if Jesus Himself said there's no such thing?

I have an elf named Toenail that sits on my knee while I type on the computer who says Jesus did not say those things.

Does it seem odd to anyone besides me that we quote an ancient text of dubious origins, authenticity, translations, and without external corroboration to settle a question of Eternal Life?

Why don't we quote Gulliver's Travels for the answer to Eternal Life?

I'm just askin'.


You're absolutely right. In this instance, I use that text because the LDS church indicates that it considers the Bible to be sacred scripture, though, as was pointed out, only if it is translated correctly.

For what it's worth, there is a lot in the Bible that I don't believe, and/or think it was just put in there to make a point.

I do think it is interesting, though, that the translated correctly theme is put out there.

As I understand it, Joseph Smith took parts of the Bible, and either changed some words around or added new ones.

Hopefully, I have the information correct about this.

What I first thought about when I heard this was how did Joseph Smith get the original manuscripts to make sure they were translated incorrectly? I mean, if that's your case, wouldn't you have to go back to the originals to make sure the right words were used in translation? Did Joseph Smith know ancient Greek and Hebrew?

I though the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't found until the last century, not in the 1800s.

Anyway, will we have eternal life? Who really knows? We think we know, but (in the words of Blood, Sweat, & Tears) "But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell."

I just try to live my life morally and ethically, so if I do end up before some great judgement seat, I'll be able to say "I did the best I could." If not, well, then at least I tried to make it a better place.
_ozemc
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Post by _ozemc »

harmony wrote:
richardMdBorn wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:I'm rather sure that Mormons interpret those words of Jesus to mean that the ordinance of marriage isn't physically performed in the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, one can continue a marriage there, but cannot commence one there.

This is because He says "they neither marry, nor are given in marriage;" He doesn't say "their marriages end"--a subtle distinction, but one which makes sense in my opinion.
Shades is right that that's how TBMs interpret this passage. However, Jesus was asked which one the woman would be married to and responded that people in heaven would be like the angels. The strong implication is that no one is married in heaven.


So does that mean the angels aren't married?


Well, if there are angels, why would they need to be?

But, to go with the scripture, I interpret it to mean that, no, they are not married. I believe the impression is that angels are neither male or female and are just beings that glorify God. They are not meant to be anything other than that.
_Mercury
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Re: Eternal Marriage?

Post by _Mercury »

ozemc wrote:
Why should those of us, who are not Mormon, believe in an "eternal" marriage that has to be performed in a temple, if Jesus Himself said there's no such thing?


that's the wrapup of this issue in a nutshell. The reason Mormonism exists is because the social constructs it has built revolve around retention of the faithful, otherwise this stuff would have died out after the Mormons were run out of Illinois and scattered to join other kooky religious collectives.

The story of Mormonism are stories of convincing others to hang on until your dead. Because you can never guarantee delivery of the goods the situation snowballs and the meme is perpetuated.

Irony impaired individuals such as Mormons and fundy christians cannot see anything outside their interview. Their brains (and im serious...its proven medically via Cat Scans/etc) are "blind" to the reality of certain siuations. Conflicting data is ignored or discounted if it is blatant.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
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