Flawed Patriarchal Blessings

[_Mary]

I don't think it is your fault, MM.

I always took my patriarchal blessing very seriously. It told me, understandably, to 'seek out a worthy priesthood holder' who would take me to the temple, and that we would have many children.....etc.

It kept me in the church, I think, far longer than I should have stayed. I really did look on that blessing as God's unadulterated words to me personally.

In hindsight, I don't think the blessing is God's unadulterated words, just the churches and patriarch's hopes and best wishes for the future.

I have the same problem with priesthood blessings, some of which were wildly off (particularly one that basically told me that a certain rm was the one that I should marry), of course it was MY fault that the blessing didn't come true, not the faulty nature of the advise in the first place. I think there's a lot of I'm okay, and you are not, going on in the church. I suppose it's human nature to blame everyone except yourself. I always tended to blame myself for everything anyway, so it was like a double wammy for me. The person who gave me the blessing about the rm, admitted that it might have been his own wishes for me, it was his wife who went crazy saying that I didn't have enough faith and wasn't worthy enough to be married. (actually this rm went inactive anyway, so at the time it was probably to my advantage that it didn't work out)

Actually, I remember my partriarch (who was a wonderful man) saying that there were one or two things in it, that someone further on up the line, weren't too happy about. (I wonder from this, whether the blessings get checked, before the final document is handed out) The bits they weren't happy about I assume, and vaguely recollect from memory, was about Satan being right next to me all the time, trying to lead me out of the church. (Quite a lot for a 15/16 year old to come to terms with I think) I was quite the dreamer, and it scared me half to death. It might also have been the very specific nature of my future in terms of travelling the world and meeting influential people. (Actually I have fulfilled that, in terms of being a teacher, and travelling a lot, but not travel, connected to meeting influential people) But anyway, the patriarch informed me that everything was to stay in, and he was quite pleased about that since he had felt particularly inspired to say the things he said.

Oh well. I don't doubt his sincere motives for one minute.

Life's tricky sometimes.

[_Mephitus]

I based my statement on personal experience in "speaking" with various people here on the board.

Mind you, some have stated that they have felt the Holy Ghost, but say they "discovered" that at the time they "were obviously deluded" and were having "emotions forced upon them through group hypnosis". I am savagely paraphraseing from memory, but that's what I recall being said.

The promise made by Moroni works for members who are having a crisis of faith the same as it does for non-members wanting to know if the church is true. The entire purpose of the Holy Ghost is to testify. that's his job.

Gaz

As i said before, how about the people who DID do this and got the opposing answer?


Oh, and you may do well to study what is actually involved with "self-hypnosis". I have been trained in hypnosis, and the ability to trick the mind into thinking what you want it too isnt that hard once you understand the base workings of the mind.

[_Sam Harris]

Hey MM,

Undoubtedly there will be some who would like to tell you that you are nit-picking. It's ultimately up to you to decided where to draw the line in the sand with regards to your re-evaluation of your years as a Mormon.

I remember being encouraged a great deal by a friend of mine (a person I still think highly of) to get my patriarchal blessing. He said it would bring great joy and guidance to me. He told me that it would give me a sense of hope. And I think for a while that it did, while I was LDS. But like you, I came to some realizations about what was and was not going to be in my life as a Latter-day Saint.

The two things stuck out to me the most: One was the assurance that I would one day marry in the temple (now how could that happen if I could never even get a date?). It got to the point where it was very painful for me to see other people dating. More than anything I want a home of my own, a safe home, and a family that loves me unconditionally. One that is not filled with strife and dysfunction. I felt it kind of cruel to promise me something that ultimately I could not have because of my background. But I do not blame the patriarch. How could he know? He was just doing what he thought was best. Eventually I came to the point where I had to make the choice between looking outside the church for relationships (which was hard as an LDS, because of the whole chastity issue), or waiting to be someone's "last resort", as I called it. I refused to be someone's desperate attempt at a family when everyone else rejected him. I'm better than that. So, that's one of the reasons I walked. I'm glad I did, or I would not know the man I do now.

The second was me being a "bold missionary, quick to testify of blessings available". That could in a way apply to my life now, but I don't go around telling folk they need to be Christian. That just isn't my call! But when I was LDS, I took that line to mean that God had chosen me to be an activist of sorts with regards to race issues in the church. And that ultimately caused me a lot of pain. Between taking part in Black History month programs, trying to introduce Gospel music into Sacrament, networking with other black LDS, and talking about the issues, I stayed in trouble. Most didn't want to hear what I had to say, or what others like me had to say. They just wanted to go to a nice fireside in february and be convinced that everything inside the church was ok, and folks like me were just "troublemakers". The barrage of character defamation that I endured on FAIR was ultimately the end for me, because I came to realize that the folks I was dealing with who were so mean to me were the same folk I was sitting next to on sunday, but they were just too cowardly to say what they had to say then. And they would always hold me at arms length. I deserve better than that. So I walked.

And there was one last thing, which I kind of still hold onto, because it was true before the blessing was given, and I believe it to be true in the life of anyone who seeks a connection with the spiritual. I was essentially told to hold on, that even in my darkest times, God was there, and he wept when I did. That keeps me going, given my personal situation. It keeps me alive.

There are a lot of people who will try to tell you what God has in store personally for you. But I think that for humans to make such guarantees is not always healthy. You set up expectations, and get so disappointed when they don't happen. I've buried a lot of dreams in my short tenure on this planet, and these days I'm wary of anyone who wants to say "this is the way it's going to happen to you". Now I just try to do my best, what I think is right in the situations I find myself in at home and "out there", and surrender the rest to God. My partriarchal blessing didn't play out the way I was told it would, and in life in general many things haven't gone the way I planned. If we focus on that, life turns gray. So I just keep moving.

[Edited for grammatical change]

[_MormonMendacity]

Hey MM,

Undoubtedly there will be some who would like to tell you that you are nit-picking. It's ultimately up to you to decided where to draw the line in the sand with regards to your re-evaluation of your years as a Mormon.

I remember being encouraged a great deal by a friend of mine (a person I still think highly of) to get my patriarchal blessing. He said it would bring great joy and guidance to me. He told me that it would give me a sense of hope. And I think for a while that it did, while I was LDS. But like you, I came to some realizations about what was and was not going to be in my life as a Latter-day Saint.

Thanks, GIMR. I agree that it gave me a sense of hope and there are many times, even today, when that hope was a comfort. As I'm sure you understand, where I now believe it betrayed me was in making decisions without using good thinking patterns. Instead, I relied on the "hope" instead of the natural consequences of decisions.

The two things stuck out to me the most: One was the assurance that I would one day marry in the temple (now how could that happen if I could never even get a date?). It got to the point where it was very painful for me to see other people dating. More than anything I want a home of my own, a safe home, and a family that loves me unconditionally. One that is not filled with strife and dysfunction. I felt it kind of cruel to promise me something that ultimately I could not have because of my background. But I do not blame the patriarch. How could he know? He was just doing what he thought was best. Eventually I came to the point where I had to make the choice between looking outside the church for relationships (which was hard as an LDS, because of the whole chastity issue), or waiting to be someone's "last resort", as I called it. I refused to be someone's desperate attempt at a family when everyone else rejected him. I'm better than that. So, that's one of the reasons I walked. I'm glad I did, or I would not know the man I do now.

Your response indicates, at least to me, a great awakening -- and I think that's what I come out of Mormonism with. I understand my own desires and how I am now the owner of realizing them. I don't blame the majority of people in the church either for the things that happened to me. I was born into a situation where it was taught to me as a fundamental part of my culture by people who were taught the same. I think there were/are a few leaders who manipulate people for their own ends but, by and large, the people I know within the church are good, kind and honest people...they are "Gazalem", to a large extent.

The second was me being a "bold missionary, quick to testify of blessings available". That could in a way apply to my life now, but I don't go around telling folk they need to be Christian. That just isn't my call! But when I was LDS, I took that line to mean that God had chosen me to be an activist of sorts with regards to race issues in the church. And that ultimately caused me a lot of pain. Between taking part in Black History month programs, trying to introduce Gospel music into Sacrament, networking with other black LDS, and talking about the issues, I stayed in trouble. Most didn't want to hear what I had to say, or what others like me had to say. They just wanted to go to a nice fireside in february and be convinced that everything inside the church was ok, and folks like me were just "troublemakers". The barrage of character defamation that I endured on FAIR was ultimately the end for me, because I came to realize that the folks I was dealing with who were so mean to me were the same folk I was sitting next to on sunday, but they were just too cowardly to say what they had to say then. And they would always hold me at arms length. I deserve better than that. So I walked.

Discordant voices are not appreciated by most. I did know a few very liberal leaders who were very accepting of dissent. They were people who, I think, really viewed a big picture about the Church and its ability to heal the troubled souls. I, too, love the way many people practice their Christianity and realize the help that the community can give to others.

And there was one last thing, which I kind of still hold onto, because it was true before the blessing was given, and I believe it to be true in the life of anyone who seeks a connection with the spiritual. I was essentially told to hold on, that even in my darkest times, God was there, and he wept when I did. That keeps me going, given my personal situation. It keeps me alive.

Having a source of solace when we're troubled is truly a blessing. It sounds like you're grounded in a very happy place about these things.

There are a lot of people who will try to tell you what God has in store personally for you. But I think that for humans to make such guarantees is not always healthy. You set up expectations, and get so disappointed when they don't happen. I've buried a lot of dreams in my short tenure on this planet, and these days I'm wary of anyone who wants to say "this is the way it's going to happen to you". Now I just try to do my best, what I think is right in the situations I find myself in at home and "out there", and surrender the rest to God. My partriarchal blessing didn't play out the way I was told it would, and in life in general many things haven't gone the way I planned. If we focus on that, life turns gray. So I just keep moving.

Thanks for your comments. It is nice to have your perspective on things. I can tell they come from a very deep part of your soul and belief systems. I also appreciate much of what Gaz says, when he comes out of the fog of scriptures and presents himself instead of dead prophets. He sounds like a very sincere guy.

[_Sam Harris]

As I'm sure you understand, where I now believe it betrayed me was in making decisions without using good thinking patterns. Instead, I relied on the "hope" instead of the natural consequences of decisions.

When I was young and struggling with certain things, my grandmother used to tell me to just have faith. I had no idea what she meant. When we delegate the right to live our lives to someone else, and let them make the predictions and decisions for us, we give up so much! I like the idea of LDS blessings, but sometimes I think that sometimes they go too far. I've heard of situations where a person is sick, in the hospital, and not going to recover...and the elders go in and bless that person with a complete healing. Is this realistic? I'm not saying I don't believe in miracles, I do, but I think that a life well lived is as much of a miracle as anything else. If I were an elder, I'd bless the person with patience and a desire to know what God's will was for them in their circumstances. Sometimes I feel like the Church tries to manipulate God, if you follow all these rules, you will get all these blessings. But my understanding of God has never proven that to be true. Somtimes I've been blessed and I didn't do anything to deserve it. Other times I've minded my P's and Q's, and still ended up screwed. God is not some spiritual slot machine, he's a teacher.

In the Old Testament Survey class I took not too long ago, they compared the Hebrew God to the gods of Near Eastern Mythology. In Judaism, God was not appeased by rote and ritual. He was appeased by what went on in your heart as you performed the ritual. Because Mosaic Law was no joke, but it was only part of the equation. The Jews in that day didn't realize this for many reasons. Near Eastern beliefs saw God as something you could manipulate by sacrifice. But it never worked that way. And I see an aspect of that in the LDS church among the really pious, and it still isn't working.

Your response indicates, at least to me, a great awakening -- and I think that's what I come out of Mormonism with. I understand my own desires and how I am now the owner of realizing them. I don't blame the majority of people in the church either for the things that happened to me. I was born into a situation where it was taught to me as a fundamental part of my culture by people who were taught the same. I think there were/are a few leaders who manipulate people for their own ends but, by and large, the people I know within the church are good, kind and honest people...they are "Gazalem", to a large extent.

Yeah, coming out of the church was definitely an awakening of sorts for me. But it was more about myself and how I saw the world, rather than what I saw wrong with the church. There are certain aspects of church culture that I feel to be harmful to individuals on a spiritual and emotional level, and it is only because I needed those certain things met in my life that my exodus began. My beef was never with the existence of Nephites and Lamanites. Some people feel that I worship a mythical figure named Jesus. If such a thing bothers me, how can I possibly tell Mormons not to believe in thier scriptures? I have an opinion, but I know well enough to leave it at that.

I've met a lot of folks like Gaz as well. We simply didn't connect on a basic level because our worldviews were so different. And even though I'm antisocial and mistrusting by nature, I tried to see the good in these people in the context of where they were. I still try to do this, even when faced with uncomfortable situations where I feel that my LDS peers aren't understanding me.

Discordant voices are not appreciated by most. I did know a few very liberal leaders who were very accepting of dissent. They were people who, I think, really viewed a big picture about the Church and its ability to heal the troubled souls. I, too, love the way many people practice their Christianity and realize the help that the community can give to others.

I once had a very big picture of what I thought the church to be as well. And I still do, I'm just not part of that picture anymore. The experiences I had with "questioning" were my first big lesson in how upset people will get if you step across the lines they draw in the sand. I've known people who sang my praises until I did something they thought was wrong. Then all of a sudden I didn't have a good bone in my body. What happened to unconditional love? I experienced this both on a family and church level, and both situations are very painful to endure.

Having a source of solace when we're troubled is truly a blessing. It sounds like you're grounded in a very happy place about these things.

To be honest, I feel that the only constant in my life has been God. I can't explain how I came to feel there is a God, outside of the things I've been through the past decade. All I know is that I've always believed in a God, there's always been a connection there. The perception has grown and changed over the years, from a childhood pretend friend to the Sovreign I now know, but he's always been there. And yes, that makes me happy. It gives me hope, but not the hope I spoke of above, that blind movement. My hope is a dynamic hope, that starts with getting out of bed each morning, starting from scratch if need be. Forgiving (so freakin hard!), forgetting. These things embody hope for me. Doing these things is an act of hope for me. YaknowwhatImean? :-)

Thanks for your comments. It is nice to have your perspective on things. I can tell they come from a very deep part of your soul and belief systems. I also appreciate much of what Gaz says, when he comes out of the fog of scriptures and presents himself instead of dead prophets. He sounds like a very sincere guy.

As evil as I can be sometimes, that's just my Cancerian nature talking. I'm hard on the outside, soft on the inside. My spiritual life is very important to me, and I've been through a lot to cultivate it. Thank you for your recognition of that, I really appreciate it. Gaz is a sweetie when he can stop quoting folks. Perhaps that's why I find him likeable. We most definitely don't agree, but I'd buy the guy lunch.[/quote]

[_MormonMendacity]

The fact of the matter is, God can heal amputees.

Luke 22:50-51
50 ¶ And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

But seriously, Gaz. You don't KNOW that happened, right? You know that is hearsay and pretty poor hearsay, too. There are no additional witnesses that can corroborate this "story" and, more importantly, YOU do not know it's true from personal experience. You are quoting a story that we do not even have a the original writer's text.

All of those things make the "testimony" useless and so it does NOT refute the claim that god must hate amputees since he never heals them. (There are millions of amputees living today who can testify that god has not healed them.)

All severed limbs could be restored, if we had the faith to do it. This is merely a matter of power over matter, the same as repentance, and fasting. There is also the issue of God giving us weaknesses to make us stronger, such as in the case of my wife MS. Because of the priesthood blessing I gave her, God halted the progression of the disease, but he did not remove it because he feels there is a lesson we need to learn.

What happens to all of those who die after getting a blessing? I know of many, many examples of people who received just such blessings who died. Sounds like your wife is fortunate. And the arrogance you show by trying to explain to us what god is thinking in the situations where he has not removed your wife's ailment completely, might be an indication of the blindness caused by your unquestioning faith.

Most members on this board don't even have the faith to receive a simple revelation.

I am astounded by the insultingly facile dismissal you make of what I and other people attempted to do with the things we were taught in the Church. You "assume" that we lacked faith. How uncharitable and how ignorant of our personal situations. Since I am now convinced you are simply deluding yourself -- like I was when I would not think about how we really acquire truth (and as a hint, Gaz, it isn't through the magic that you believe in) I can only hope you'll read and study sources outside the blatant indoctrination you receive inside Mormonism and someday find the truth about the Church.

Faith and gratitude are what God asks us to show, the miracles come later.

Gaz

No. You're wrong. He asks you to be perfect. And the way you're judging your fellowmen here is specifically prohibited by your god.

Perhaps you should repent.

[_Gazelam]

First let me say that though your posts are long, they are never longwinded, and always interesting. Thank you for shareing your insights. because of your background and racial heritage, you offer a unique insight that few others could.

Can I ask you two questions? First: What did you originaly base your testimony on? Why did you originaly join the church? You may of stated this in another thread, but please repeat for us.

Second: What is the core of your hardness towards the church? The attitudes of the people, or a Doctrine? I know oyu have issues with the Cain Doctrine, but does it extend beyond that?

Gaz

[_Gazelam]

First let me say thank you to your various comment made towards me. Very kind of you, and appreciated.

In regards to the healing, as a matter of fact, I do know that that event occured. If you reject that testimony, how much more of Lukes testimony do you dismiss? or is it that you think the healing of the ear was added by a scribe at a later date? How does the account of the healing of the ear compare in your view to the calming of the sea incident? Both testify of Christs command over the elements. A doctrine he sought to instruct to Peter when he was teaching him to walk on water.

The fact that amputees are not healed is a testimony of the faithlessness of this world. Does God want some peopel to have physical frailties? I think to a certain extent, yes. Not out of cruelty, but in order to humble us and bring worship and appreciation of his upholding power to our remembrance. God gives all of us trials to pass through. His ultimate goal is for us to be independant on our righteousness. Since all are different, all are tried in diferent ways. How many handicaps are not visible, but equally crippling? Amputees are a strong visible tool, but there are psychic scars I think that are equally strong. Also, I think many handicaps have nothing to do with God. Some I have no doubt are just side effects of a fallen world.

If what I said in regards to revelation offended oyu, then take that as a sign that your indignation is appropriate. You have a birthright to receive revelation . Now go and weary the Lord with your prayers until he answers you.

Enos 1:4
4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

In the next verse, the Lord answered him. But it took from that morning, until that evening in continual prayer. Show God you really want the answer. Tell him that you need the foundation. I know he answeres prayers. he answered mine, and who am I? I'm just a joe shmoe. If he answered me, He'll answer you.

Yes God asks us to be perfect. Whats he supposed to ask, be mediocre? Would that be more inspireing? Being perfect is a goal, and some have come close. Adam and Abraham spring to mind. As do Enoch and Seth. Your capable of great things once you shake the cares of this world from your shoulders and raise your eyes to heaven.

And concerning judgement. Your not supposed to pass final judgement, but you are supposed to judge. Else why the phrase, "choose you this day whom you wil serve?" that's why agency is such an issue, and why God judges our actions. We are always making choices, includeing who we spend our time with, and allow to be around our children. the trick is how oyu treat those on a lower level of the repentence path. that's where tact comes in. Being careful to dismiss the sin, and not the sinner. Speaking out against the sin, while inspireing the sinner to stop the offence. Its not easy, and sometimes feeling get hurt.

I hurt my own feelings all the time. The same criticisms I apply to others, I apply to myself. Some people perceive me as self-righteous (just ask my wife) but is it still self righteous if I apply the same view towards myself? Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Why is it not ok to say so?

Gaz

[_Mephitus]

Put in the simplest terms gaz, because you are wrong and missguided.

[_Gazelam]

That hurts.

Im gonna go drink a flagon of Ale from a rams horn and braid my hair till I feel better.