When did Jesus become a God?

[_harmony]

This question has been a source of questions for me for a long time, given the contradictory doctrine taught in the temple and in the KFD.

Jesus cannot be a special case: God is no respector of persons.

I am not sure that this scripture applies to this context.

Why would it not?

Jesus was God since the beginning: see Jason's post.

Do you agree?

The jury's still out for me.

God was once a man: KFD

I interpret Joseph Smith in this discourse to mean that he was a man same way Jesus was. The Father was a savior of a world, in my opinion the first world.

This is false doctrine of the first order. A man = us. Jesus was never like us; Jesus's father was Father. None of us has Father as our father, like Jesus does. We will never be like them, because they were never like us.

As God is, we can become: temple endowment

I have listened closely to the endowment and cannot find where it says we will be Gods. It does refer to royal status under God's dominion however.

Ye shall become Gods and Goddesses.... don't make me quote it here.

Yet.... Jesus was God since the beginning: see above.

Yes.

Maybe.

Contradictory doctrine.

For me the early theology of the Church does cause some conflict with later doctrine. Personally I have tried to correlate it. But members are confused. Gaz is prety knowledgeable about LDS doctrine. Yet his comments about Jesus not being fully god till after the resurrection conflict with the Book of Mormon, Much of the D&C, the Lectures on Faith, the Bible.

[/quote]

Gaz is out to lunch a lot. This may be one of those times he's having a noon nap attack.

[_Gazelam]

I simply stated that Christ was endowed with the authority of the Father in the pre-existance. But there is not a fulness of glory until a person receives a celestialized body. The Holy Ghost is God, but will someday receive a body of his own. Christ was God before the foundation of the world, but he still needed to lay down his life and take it up again.

I packed my lunch and ate in, thank you very much.

[_Jason Bourne]

This question has been a source of questions for me for a long time, given the contradictory doctrine taught in the temple and in the KFD.

Jesus cannot be a special case: God is no respector of persons.

I am not sure that this scripture applies to this context.

Why would it not?

The passage is in regards to how God treats us His creations. Jesus was one with God from the beginning and is part of the Godhead that issued this passage. Look, I know LDS love to call Jesus our big brother. But in my opinion, he is and was much more then that from the start.

Jesus was God since the beginning: see Jason's post.

Do you agree?

The jury's still out for me.

Ok

God was once a man: KFD

I interpret Joseph Smith in this discourse to mean that he was a man same way Jesus was. The Father was a savior of a world, in my opinion the first world.

This is false doctrine of the first order. A man = us. Jesus was never like us; Jesus's father was Father. None of us has Father as our father, like Jesus does. We will never be like them, because they were never like us.

No it is not. Go read the KFD. Joseph Smith said that Jesus is doing the same thing he say His Father do, that he was working out the salvation of a world, and implies that is what the Father did before. Many other LDS read the KFD and get the same result. Joseph said god was a man, but he never said God was a man just like us. But I have no agendas to make this LDS doctrine. It is a speculative view that I have come up with in order to make the KFD work with earlier LDS doctrine about God. In my opinion, God being a man just like us just does not fit into what Joseph taught for 15 years before.

But then again he did open that KFD with the statement that we had supposed God was God from all eternity, and then said he was going to refute that.

Also, I personally agree that we will never be EXACTLY like God or Jesus. But if I believe the KFD then I beleive the Father was always God and that maybe, like Jesus, He was the savior of the first earth he created. But I believe the Father is the ETERNAL GOD of all other gods-See D&C 124 I think.

As God is, we can become: temple endowment

I have listened closely to the endowment and cannot find where it says we will be Gods. It does refer to royal status under God's dominion however.

Ye shall become Gods and Goddesses.... don't make me quote it here.

I am sorry but I do not recall that language. I do recall Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses.

[_Jason Bourne]

[I simply stated that Christ was endowed with the authority of the Father in the pre-existance. But there is not a fulness of glory until a person receives a celestialized body.

The Book of Mormon disagrees with you. Was Jesus fully God before his mortal life?

The Holy Ghost is God, but will someday receive a body of his own. Christ was God before the foundation of the world, but he still needed to lay down his life and take it up again.

Ok, but that is not what you said before. by the way, where do we find the doctrine that the HG will receive a body of his own?

[_Gazelam]

In regards to what I said about the Holy Ghost:

Joseph Smith also taught that “The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and
waiting to take to himself a body as the Saviour did or as God did or the gods
before them took bodies” (From the Diary of George Laub, p. 29; as published in
Discourses on the Holy Ghost, p. 73, compiled by N. B. Lundwall). Notice that
Mormonism says that the Holy Ghost is a God just like God the Father and Son are
Gods, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit still waiting to get a body while
God the Father and Son have bodies of “flesh and bones as tangible as man’s.”


Jesus was fully God before this Life. He was God in the pre-existence. He is the creator, redeemer, and savior. That being said, in oreder to be like our Father in heaven, he needed still to receive a physical body, as still does the Holy Ghost. Yes all of them are God, and they share in power and authority with the Father, but they canot receive a fulness without a resurrected body. D&C 88:14-21.

[_bcspace]

Was Jesus fully God before his mortal life?

Relative to us, yes. Abraham 3:24 has already been mentioned but Abraham 3:19 is the real key. By that principle, it is possible for Jesus to be fully a God relative to us and yet not have everything his Father had, such as a physical body.

[_Zakuska]

Apparently... when he Ascended to the Father.

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." Hebrews 5: 8-9

Of course before becoming a man he was also God (John 1)

[_Gazelam]

It is the Melchizedek Priesthood that is infinate and Eternal, and those who fully receive it become equal to all those who carried this priesthood. That is how Gods are made, by adhereing to perfection and striveing to obtain it, until they do in the worlds to come.

(Hebrews chp. 5 + 7)

[_harmony]

It is the Melchizedek Priesthood that is infinate and Eternal, and those who fully receive it become equal to all those who carried this priesthood. That is how Gods are made, by adhereing to perfection and striveing to obtain it, until they do in the worlds to come.

(Hebrews chp. 5 + 7)

And can you give us the chapter and verses that state when and where the Melch priesthood was restored?

[_Gazelam]

Harmony:

And can you give us the chapter and verses that state when and where the Melch priesthood was restored?

Doctrine and Covenants 27:12-15
"12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;
13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
14 And also with all those whom my Father hath given me out of the world.
15 Wherefore, lift up your hearts and rejoice, and gird up your loins, and take upon you my whole armor, that ye may be able to withstand the evil day, having done all, that ye may be able to stand.

Actually the whole section discusses the opening of the dispensation and the priesthood keys to do it.

Also JS-H 1:72
" 72 The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second. It was on the fifteenth day of May, 1829, that we were ordained under the hand of this messenger, and baptized. "


Which found its fullfillment here:
D&C 128:20
20 And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the prophets—the book to be revealed. A voice of the Lord in the wilderness of Fayette, Seneca county, declaring the three witnesses to bear record of the book! The voice of Michael on the banks of the Susquehanna, detecting the devil when he appeared as an angel of light! The voice of Peter, James, and John in the wilderness between Harmony, Susquehanna county, and Colesville, Broome county, on the Susquehanna river, declaring themselves as possessing the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times!

If my account with all the details concerning the confirmation wasn't on the other end of the house I'd transcribe it here. To my memory Joseph and Oliver were on the run from a mob, going through the woods and thick underbrush. At one point they paused to catch their breath and pray, at which time Peter James and John appeared and blessed them.

Gaz