Roger injects in bold:
Fortigurn wrote:Roger Morrison wrote:It might help if I knew where you are coming from. Are you Christian? If so denomination & sect? If not "C" then what? Buddist? Hindo? Moslem? ???
Religion, Christian. Sect,
Christadelphian.
We seem to be in agreement on one thing: Bloodshed does not lead to Peace, or "God". Do you agree?
Yes. But sacrifice does lead to both peace and to God. You could rephrase 'sacrifice' as 'self-restraint' if you wish.
You could, but i'd try to be more specific. "Self-restraint" runs a pretty varied gamut--from resisting chocolate cake, to not pulling a trigger... "Sacrifice" to me results in more dire effects--positive or negative...I don't see Spong as you do. He is assertive in his promolgations, yes. But, he is not "aggressive" as I understand that word.
I see. An irregular verb. I'm forthright,
(candid, honest) you are dogmatic,
(forceful, over bearing, doctinaire) he is an aggressive fanatic
(end justifies means, violent probabilities) . The difference is all in the point of view.
And in one's vocabulary range and choice...Please name names of current, prominent folks on the peace-path who do not demonstrate, "...medieval view of relationships between man..." ???
They're not that prominent, that's my whole point. My sect is completely against the doctrine of Divine retribution and appeasement through the murder of Jesus, but we're not exactly prominent. The Quakers were prominent, the Anabaptists were prominent, and a number of pacifist Christian denominations have been prominent in history, but these days you need political clout and media influence to be prominent, and the curious fact is that historically the same Christian denominations which have rightly denounced violence have also rightly been disestablishmentarian, and remained politically uninvolved as a result.
Self inflicted/chosen impotence?I too dislike "...the conquest mentality..." I think the US "Football Mentality" (to win) roots the competition that is anything but Jesus stuff, IMSCO. Which makes America every thing it claims not to be, IMSCO...
Agreed.
How do You think a better world is more likely to evolve? Warm regards, Roger
It has to start with self-restraint.
How about active-involvement? God has been trying to get this through to us since Genesis 1.
Thanks Fort, for Wikki. It helped me understand where you are now. How did you get there? Pasted below re Christadelphians:
Beliefs
Christadelphians base their beliefs wholly on the Bible, and accept no other texts as inspired by God. They believe that God is the creator of all things and the father of true believers. God is a separate being from his son, Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not a person, but the power of God used in creation and for salvation, and at certain times in history has been given to certain believers for specific purposes.
Jesus is the promised Messiah, in whom the prophecies and promises of the Old Testament (particularly those to Abraham and David) find their fulfillment. Jesus is the Son of Man, in that he inherited sin-prone human nature from his mother, and Son of God by virtue of his miraculous conception by the power of God. Although tempted, he committed no sin, and was therefore a perfect representative sacrifice to bring salvation to sinful mankind. God raised Jesus to immortality, and he ascended to Heaven, God's dwelling place. All Christadelphians believe that Jesus will return to the earth in person to set up the Kingdom of God in fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham and King David. Jerusalem will be the capital city of the Kingdom. Some Christadelphians believe that the Kingdom will only be in Israel, but other Christadelphians believe that although the Kingdom will be centred upon Israel, Jesus Christ will also reign over all the other nations on the earth.
People become disciples of Jesus Christ only by belief in his teachings, by repentance, and through baptism by total immersion in water, not when they are babies but when they are of an age when they can understand their actions. Although saved by faith in God's grace, real faith will manifest in works, and so believers are expected to live a life consistent with Bible teaching. After death, believers are in a state of non-existence, knowing nothing until the Resurrection at the return of Christ. Following the judgment at that time, the accepted are given the gift of immortality, and live with Christ on a restored Earth, helping him to establish the Kingdom of God, and to rule over the mortal population for a thousand years (the Millennium). Christadelphians view the future Kingdom of God as the focal point of the Gospel taught by Jesus and the apostles. They point to fulfilled Bible prophecy, particularly as regards the nations, as clear evidence that the Scriptures can be trusted.
Christadelphians reject a number of doctrines traditionally held by the orthodox Christian denominations, notably the immortality of the soul, Trinitarianism, the pre-existence of Jesus Christ and present day possession of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They believe that where the words devil or Satan occur in the Bible, they should be understood as the inherent evil within humankind (i.e. sin) and the human being's inclination to disobey his or her Eternal Creator. These terms may also be used in reference to specific political systems or individuals in opposition or conflict. Hell is understood to simply refer to the grave to which all men go, rather than being a place of eternal torment.
Christadelphians believe the doctrines they reject were introduced into Christendom after the 1st century, and cannot be demonstrated from the Bible.
Christadelphians are conscientious objectors (but not pacifists), and refrain from involvement with politics, joining the armed forces, the police force, or other organised bodies such as trade unions. There is a strong emphasis on personal Bible reading (some Christadelphians use the Bible Companion to help them systematically read the entire Bible each year), Bible study, prayer, and morality. Congregational worship, which usually takes place on Sunday, centres on the remembrance of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ by the taking of bread and wine
Seems to have some of the best, and some of the worst Bible extractions basing their dogma, IMSCO. Similar in many/some ways to Jehovah Witness, Mormonism and other well intended Christian sects.
I like "conscientious-objection"--"no central authority/autonomy"--"no trinity"... I do not like their: "Patriarchial stance", Messianic belief, Bible inerrancy, Baptism as powerful beyond an initiative symbol...
Having said that, i 'think' IF/WHEN we set aside our theological disputes, and ecclesiatic egotisms to concentate on Jesusism, and his Social gospel, as it is suggested in HIS "Two New Commandments", "Grace & Salvation" will be reunderstood AND applied here-and-now to benefit mortality...
As is any other Scientific or Spiritual principle. IMSCO... Warm regards, Roger