Fundamentalism...

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Runtu, I think you are correct. LDS 80% Fundy. Although, IF we factor in a subject such as homosexuality, we might nudge the % closer to 99.9??

Asking again my last question:

Where would you say Eagleton & Spong are leading us/Christianism?? Warm regards, Roger

I read your ref to Eagleton, in another thread. I think speaking at an LDS function? BYU??? Is he LDS? X-Mo? Roger

Oh, no, Eagleton is not LDS. He's a Marxist professor of Literary Theory from England; I think he's currently at the University of Manchester. He was invited to speak at BYU when I was in grad school, and I remember my professor saying, "How in the hell did they manage to get this past the administration? President Benson would have a heart attack if he knew a Marxist was at BYU."

It was a fascinating conference, and frankly, some of the questions posed to Eagleton from the professors were embarrassing. I remember Eugene England trying to debate communism with Eagleton and getting smacked down rather badly. After one lecture, I spoke to him for a few minutes, and he invited me to the faculty luncheon, where I sat next to him and had a wonderful time.

Oddly enough, he married Willa Murphy, a non-Mormon who graduated with me at BYU.

Isn't it wonderful to have a day like that!!! Life IS good! Eagleton sounds like another of "my-kind"!! You too, actually... Warm regards, Roger

[_Runtu]

Isn't it wonderful to have a day like that!!! Life IS good! Eagleton sounds like another of "my-kind"!! You too, actually... Warm regards, Roger

That was my first week of grad school, and it made me feel like I could hold my own. Sometimes I think he invited me to lunch just to make the professors mad, but then the rest of me figures we weren't finished with our conversation, and he wanted to finish it.

Yeah, it was a good day (3 days, actually).

[_richardMdBorn]

Hi Roger,

I was testing your knowledge of evangelicalism/fundamentalism. A couple of years ago, I heard a talk at a U of Chicago weekend where a speaker said that the 19th C temperance movement was a manifestation of Calvinism. In the Q&A time I said that it was the reverse. The temperance folks were generally anti-Calvinists (Joseph Smith and the LDS are one manifestation of this). I then asked the speaker who Charles Finney and J Gresham Machen were. He had never heard of them. Finney was a major anti-Calvinist who advocated the “new measures”. Machen is an early 20th C Calvinist who opposed prohibition. Clearly, the speaker knew little about 19th C religion or the temperance movement.

1) What is the ICBI – the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy http://sites.silaspartners.com/CC_Conte ... ID,00.html

2) What did BB Warfield, AA Hodge and Charles Hodge have in common – they were major Princeton Seminary Professors known as the Old Princetonians. They were all Calvinists. Warfield was a leading theologian who helped flesh out inerrancy (see volume one of his ten volume collected works).

3) What seminary did Machen found after being kicked out of Princeton. – Machen was kicked out of Princeton by the liberals (more of that fabled liberal tolerance) and founded Westminster Seminary.

4) William Wilberforce's theological views are closer to A) Fundamentalists B) Liberals like Spong – this is in response to the first quote (by Spong?), that “Racism has always been an ally of fundamentalism”. Yea, right, Wilberforce was a good ally of racism. And Spong was not racist, or at best patronizing, in his reaction to conservative African Anglicans.

Richard

[_richardMdBorn]

"It is not surprising that fundamentalism abhors sexuality and the body, since in one sense all flesh is rough, and all sex is rough trade."

I'm not sure which planet this writer is from, but fundamentalists seem to be reproducing pretty well. Note the Roe v Wade effect as formulated by James Taranto of Opinion journal's Best of the Web. Conservatism is growing because liberals are more likely to abort their potential offspring. Who abhors the potential results of sex: the conservative who has a kid or the liberal who aborts it away?

[_Fortigurn]

Where would you say Eagleton & Spong are leading us/Christianism??

I would say they are enjoying riding a wave of post-modern disillusionment with Christianity, and that Spong in particular is laughing all the way to the bank.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Roger,

I was testing your knowledge of evangelicalism/fundamentalism. A couple of years ago, I heard a talk at a U of Chicago weekend where a speaker said that the 19th C temperance movement was a manifestation of Calvinism. In the Q&A time I said that it was the reverse. The temperance folks were generally anti-Calvinists (Joseph Smith and the LDS are one manifestation of this). I then asked the speaker who Charles Finney and J Gresham Machen were. He had never heard of them. Finney was a major anti-Calvinist who advocated the “new measures”. Machen is an early 20th C Calvinist who opposed prohibition. Clearly, the speaker knew little about 19th C religion or the temperance movement.

1) What is the ICBI – the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy http://sites.silaspartners.com/CC_Conte ... ID,00.html

2) What did BB Warfield, AA Hodge and Charles Hodge have in common – they were major Princeton Seminary Professors known as the Old Princetonians. They were all Calvinists. Warfield was a leading theologian who helped flesh out inerrancy (see volume one of his ten volume collected works).



3) What seminary did Machen found after being kicked out of Princeton. – Machen was kicked out of Princeton by the liberals (more of that fabled liberal tolerance) and founded Westminster Seminary.

4) William Wilberforce's theological views are closer to A) Fundamentalists B) Liberals like Spong – this is in response to the first quote (by Spong?), that “Racism has always been an ally of fundamentalism”. Yea, right, Wilberforce was a good ally of racism. And Spong was not racist, or at best patronizing, in his reaction to conservative African Anglicans.

Richard

Good AM, Richard, thanks for the information. One can't have enough. While my knowledge of the above historical data might be wanting, i'm not sure how that impacts my sentiments re "Fundamentalism's 5 (7?) points" as history presents them... Will you please connect those dots for me?

Trite analogy: I know very little about electron flow in "electricity" yet i benefit from them more and more as science uses them more and more to my/our benefit; as we are at this moment doing...

The Chicago U meeting would have been interesting. Always is to listen to theories and analyses. If nothing else we learn the thoughts of the 'presenter'. Often of little relevance to hands-on-stuff involved in day-to-day personal interactions...

Try as we might to be objective, in matters where that matters, we cannot entirely escape our 'conditionings' and genetic proclivities. Do you agree? Both heros and cowards might score equally well on an IQ test. But, their EQs will probably have more to do with their ultimate successes--generally speaking, of course. Would you agree?

What this has to do with "Fundamentalism"--as i understand it: My IQ & EQ tends to make/lead me (to) 'think' that the "5/7" points established as their 'presenter's' criteria of being a "true believer"--so to speak--are, IMSCO, fundamentally errant.

Richard, once again i ask You to help Me understand the relevance of your "test" to the subject/topic. Granted, they are Your thoughts and comments, as i asked for: "thank-you." Maybe no more need be said?? :-)

I'm not sure which planet this writer is from, but fundamentalists seem to be reproducing pretty well. Note the Roe v Wade effect as formulated by James Taranto of Opinion journal's Best of the Web. Conservatism is growing because liberals are more likely to abort their potential offspring. Who abhors the potential results of sex: the conservative who has a kid or the liberal who aborts it away?

I 'think' Spong was probably referring to "sexuality" as it is generally on public display. Arousing :-) some to object at a different level than others. I 'think' Spong is suggesting that 'Fundies' might be more inclined to need less skin exposed for their "arousal"?? Your analysis may be sound from your perspective. But not from his. What 'think' ye?

Hi Fortigurn, you say:

Roger Morrison wrote:
Where would you say Eagleton & Spong are leading us/Christianism??


I would say they are enjoying riding a wave of post-modern disillusionment with Christianity, and that Spong in particular is laughing all the way to the bank.

Yea, i think yer right. "Disillusionment" IS necessary to get back to "Jesusism", THE "Two New Commandments" and, their application to human relations... "...blessed are the peace-makers..." Where are they hiding? Warm regards, Roger

[_Fortigurn]

Yea, I think yer right. "Disillusionment" IS necessary to get back to "Jesusism", THE "Two New Commandments" and, their application to human relations...

I wasn't talking about disillusionment with institutional religion (Spong offers a good heavy dose of institutional religion), I was talking about disillusionment with Christianity, including belief in God and Jesus. Spong doesn't strike me as someone particularly interested in belief in God and Jesus, which is part of his appeal to contemporary po-mos.

"...blessed are the peace-makers..." Where are they hiding?

There are plenty of Christian peace makers, but they get drowned out by the war hawks. Historically the self-titled 'orthodoxy' Christians have persecuted them and hunted them to death.

[_Runtu]

Where would you say Eagleton & Spong are leading us/Christianism??

I would say they are enjoying riding a wave of post-modern disillusionment with Christianity, and that Spong in particular is laughing all the way to the bank.

Clearly you are not familiar with Eagleton, who once described postmodernism as a movement that allows you to drive a wagon train through everyone else's belief systems without the inconvenience of having any beliefs yourself.

[_Blixa]

I love hearing runtu's story...never get tired of it.

[_Runtu]

I love hearing runtu's story...never get tired of it.

Hmmm. Maybe I've told that story too often. LOL. Welcome!