jstayii wrote:Mister Scratch wrote:Wait a sec... I believe I am still confused.... You say, "Joseph Smith was still preaching the exact same things as the 1838 account." Why would he preach any differently? The Wiki article deals with variances in the account (including Joseph Smith's own) which predate the 1838 account.... The bottom (truthful) line is that there are a lot of variations and discrepancies in the accounting of the First Vision. That is the truth, plain and simple. Why does this seem "anti-Mormon" to you?
You may see it that way, but I don't think a non-Mormon will.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are trying to finagle the information so that readers will come to one particular conclusion.... Is that correct? Or would you prefer that readers be given the facts so that they can make their own determination?
I think it's important to explicitely note that while there were multiple variations in the account of the First Vision, there are other accounts saying that Joseph had the same testimony and gave the same account to others in 1832, as he did in 1838, showing those accounts that pre-dated the 1838 account were just recollections, and not the full story of what happened.
"Just recollections"? That does not make any sense at all. The 1838 account
is itself a recollection, and it is a more distant recollection to boot!
We need to show that the 1838 account *is* the most complete account
To my knowledge, no one has ever established this....
- there is plenty of facts out there to support this,
I would be interested in seeing these facts.
and these facts are not always mentioned when people criticize the Mormon church. What is in that wikipedia article is exactly the half-truth that evangelicals and others give in anti-mormon literature, such as the DVD that just came out.
Is this really any different from missionaries telling investigators that Joseph Smith "saw Heavenly Father" while omitting the parts about the varying accounts/recollections?
by the way: "TBM" is an acronym for (depending on who's using it): "True Blue Mormon", "True Believing Mormon", or "Truly Brainwashed Mormon." It is used to describe someone who adheres rigidly to LDS orthodoxy